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Old July 19, 2014, 12:09 PM   #1
Mosin-Marauder
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Would this be Cleaning too much?

...to clean my Mosin-Nagant until the patches come out clean? Like continuously running a brass brush soaked in Hoppe's and patches through it (5-6 passes with the brass brush, 4-6 passes with patches) to get all the past crud out of the barrel from the "previous owner". I haven't shot bit since the last time I cleaned it and a few minutes ago I did the above cleaning process and the first patch came out black as tar. Anyway, was just wanting you folk's opinion, I thought this might help accuracy.
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Old July 19, 2014, 01:22 PM   #2
DPris
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It is very much possible to wear rifling prematurely with excessive brushing.
Stick to the bronze brushes, don't use stainless (too aggressive), and don't keep on brushing till the patches come out perfectly clean.

On a newly acquired Mosin, I've used both Shooter's Choice Copper Remover and JB's Bore Paste to get rid of most of the previous copper deposits that may be there.

The copper remover will get out the copper, obviously.
If you use that liquid, or another brand, it is NOT necessary to use it EVERY time you clean, and not advisable. Some can be harsh in the bore.
Don't use it in conjunction with bronze brushes; think about it- it's a copper dissolver & what's in bronze?

Copper removal liquids are best used with patches, keep "patching" the bore with the liquid till it no longer comes out in any shade of blue or green.
At that point- stop.
Run an oiled patch down the bore, followed by a dry patch.

The dedicated copper-cleaning solutions are not regular cleaning fluids & should not be used regularly, everytime you clean.

Once to start out on a "new" Mosin, and occasionally after that, with high-volume use.
You can go hundreds of rounds without using it again, unless you have a particularly rough bore that's building up deposits.
Heavy copper deposits can frequently be seen with a good bore light.
Re-use the copper cleaner accordingly.

Remember that some are based on ammonia, which can be hard on the steel.

The JB's Paste comes in little plastic "tubs".
It is applied THINLY on patches. Write that down- THINLY.
It'll bring out a surprising amount of gunk from rifling, even after you think you've got it clean by conventional cleaning solutions.

You follow your standard protocol with normal cleaning however you do it (the boiling water trick, the Windex patches, Siberian Yak Urine, whatever), then run three or four patches down the bore with the paste (follow instructions), then clean with solvent & patches.
Don't overdo it. The paste is a very mild abrasive & it'll wear your rifling if you abuse it.
Again- NOT EVERY TIME YOU CLEAN YOUR BORE.

These are both proven methods that can get your barrel pretty much down to bare metal.

Another thing to try, if you're losing sleep over it, is to run a couple solvent patches down the bore three or four days after you've cleaned the barrel.
Gunk can float up over a 24-hour period after cleaning.

Just DON'T over-use any metallic brush.
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Old July 19, 2014, 01:46 PM   #3
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Okay, so when I get home, run a hoppe's soaked patch down the barrel until it doesn't turn colors, then run a dry patch down the bore followed by an oiled patch and a dry patch? Will that get all the gunk out of the barrel?
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Old July 19, 2014, 01:48 PM   #4
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Mo,
Re-read #2.
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Old July 19, 2014, 02:23 PM   #5
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I dont have any paste or shooter's choice, atm.
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Old July 19, 2014, 02:29 PM   #6
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Also, the patches keep coming out blue/green.
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Old July 19, 2014, 02:33 PM   #7
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http://www.outers-guncare.com/resources/faq.aspx

Some FAQ about cleaning guns. Hopefully this will help you decide.
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Old July 19, 2014, 02:44 PM   #8
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Would RIG work in place of oil? Like a very thin coat? The patches finally stopped coming out green and blue.
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Old July 19, 2014, 02:59 PM   #9
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Mo,
Get some dedicated copper solvent, use the patch method with it.

The two products I mentioned will help you get down to "clean" metal in your bore, after which you do your normal cleaning routines when you shoot.

You should be able to find a copper cleaner locally at your gunshop.
The JB's can be ordered from Brownells.

I don't know what you mean specifically by "when I get home".
If you were shooting the gun, follow your normal cleaning routines, paying attention to two concepts- DON'T over-brush the bore, and try coming back a couple days later & just running a couple solvent patches down it, followed by a dry one to get the solvent out, followed by an oiled one to get oil into the pores, and then another dry one.

If you were not shooting the gun today, then just do the best you can for right now with enough solvent patches to where they come out clean.

Cleaning doesn't have to be a major operation or an obsessive one.

With your Mosin, the primary on-going issue is to neutralize the corrosive ammunition salts each time you shoot that stuff.
Pick your method & run with it.

Another key issue is copper deposition.
The two methods I gave you will remove 99% of previous deposits from before you got your rifle.

Intermittent and SPARING use of both, or either, will help keep ongoing deposition issues to a minimum.

From there, don't over-brush.
Don't worry about absolute "white-as-Heaven" clean patches.
Don't worry about getting ALL the gunk out.

The reason I laid out my steps is to get the bore de-gunked/de-coppered to begin with.
The "couple days later" patching is because the rifling can "sweat" out additional gunk after you do clean it.

The dry patch after the solvent is to get most of the liquid solvent out.
The oiled patch is to leave a trace of oil in the steel's microscopic pores.
The dry patch after that is to remove MOST of the oil.
A wet bore can affect accuracy & increase pressures.

If you use a combined cleaner/lube like Breakfree CLP, you don't need to dry-patch the solvent out, oil-patch oil in, and dry-patch the oil out.
You can just run a dry patch through after you're done cleaning with the CLP.
This is assuming you do additional cleaning beyond merely dumping boiling water down the bore. That alone will not get it as clean as it should be.

There's no exact cleaning regimen.
There are various ways to achieve the same end goal- a clean bore.
Some are better than others.
Denis
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Old July 19, 2014, 03:00 PM   #10
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NO!
No RIG left in the bore.
IT IS NOT A CLEANER, IT IS NOT AN OIL!
Too thick.
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Old July 19, 2014, 03:03 PM   #11
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Okay! Sorry! Didn't know! I'll get it out!
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Old July 19, 2014, 03:14 PM   #12
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Okay. I think I've got the bore pretty clean. Got all the rig out. The only thing I see is the frost near the chamber end, which wasn't my fault (pretty sure that was from the guy that sold it to me). Anyway, thanks for all the help, I'm feeling a bit dizzy from all the hoppe's I used.
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Old July 19, 2014, 03:14 PM   #13
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Mo,
If you want to leave RIG in the bore during long-term storage, that's OK.
BUT- it'll have to be removed with solvent before you shoot again.

More hassle than it's worth.

Grease is not a good idea inside a barrel because it IS too thick.
Enough oil to leave a bore wet is not a good idea.

Both CAN be done for longterm storage, but both need to be removed before shooting, because they run the risk of increasing pressures.

It's the salts that you need to worry most about in your Mosin.
Take care of those & you don't need to leave the rifling wet or greased after cleaning.
It's not that delicate.
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Old July 19, 2014, 03:38 PM   #14
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Also, Denis, would these targets work for 100 yards? They are the only targets I can find locally that I can see at 100 yards that are 8". If not, I can keep looking.
http://www.brownells.com/shooting-ac...343150_d_20330
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Old July 19, 2014, 03:57 PM   #15
DPris
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Yes, they'll work fine.

You can get cheaper 8-inch black bulls in bulk at Amazon.com, but the ones you show will be OK.

Stick to the same sizes & the same 6 o'clock hold & the same rest & the same 100 yards, OK?
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Old July 19, 2014, 04:04 PM   #16
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6 O'clock hold at the bottom of the entire bullseye(dotting the eye with the front sight post and entire bullseye)
2 bags in the front and one rabbit ear bag in the rear
100 yards target distance from the bench.
20 rounds each sitting (I don't want to burn my ammo up too fast or burn myself out.
My sights will be set at 200 meters.
That's all my variables, I'll have to remember to keep the same trigger squeeze and not rush the shot. I'll keep you updated with targets after nine shoot them, if you don't mind.
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Old July 19, 2014, 04:09 PM   #17
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Everyone has their preference, and I've never used some of the ones mentioned above.

FWIW, for bore cleaning I've never used anything but Wipe-Out foam...and never brushes of any kind, only patches.

Removes powder and copper fouling. Heavily fouled, leave in the bore overnight before patching out.
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Old July 19, 2014, 04:11 PM   #18
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to each their own. i avoid using bushes (bronze or nylon) as much as possible. what really helps is "breaking in" and "seasoning" a new barrel, using a simple shoot/clean process for 30-50 rounds. i use hoppes elite, or my home brew ed's red, cotton patches on the jag end of a carbon fiber rod. when the patches come out *reasonably* clean, a few dry patches to get rid of the solvent, and then ending with an oiled patch. having copper or leading issues will require a different and more intensive cleaning process that will probably require brushing. ymmv.
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Old July 19, 2014, 04:14 PM   #19
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Don't mind at all.

Understand that the 200-yard setting MAY need to be adjusted.

First priority is getting holes placed SOMEWHERE on your paper, even if it's outside the black, as long as it's CONSISTENT.

After you can do that, the secondary goal is to get those CONSISTENT groups INSIDE the black, and for that don't hesitate to adjust your elevation as indicated, either up or down.

Don't adjust YOU (in changing your 6 o'clock aimpoint), adjust the rear sight either back to 100 meters or out to 300 meters.

Good luck.
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Old July 19, 2014, 04:20 PM   #20
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Thanks everyone. Denis, I'll PM you if I have any more questions. Thanks again.
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Old July 19, 2014, 04:36 PM   #21
DPris
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Tob & Rf,
The idea was more to give Mo some core principles than to push specific products on him.

There are many that'll do essentially the same job, he can choose whatever he wants there.
The JB's, though, I've used for years & it'll pull gunk up no matter how clean your previous patch was.

On the brushing, I do much more with patches than brushes, but I'll use a brush on occasion.
They have their uses in removing light lead deposits in barrels & revolver chambers, for instance, and they can loosen stubborn fouling in shotgun & rifle barrels.

The oil-in-the-barrel issue involves not leaving TOO much in it.
A very light film at most, definitely not wet.

I run a final dry patch through my bores after cleaning, never had any rusting whatever.

Others may prefer other processes.
Denis
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Old July 20, 2014, 10:59 AM   #22
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I do agree on the JB bore paste- amazing stuff- I should probably use it for cleaning up every milsurp barrel.

Got some shine back to the grooves on a fairly beat-up Israeli Mauser with it, as well as removing carbon ring in an AR barrel.
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Old July 20, 2014, 03:09 PM   #23
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Mo,
Did you shoot?
How'd it go?
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Old July 20, 2014, 03:53 PM   #24
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Haven't had the chance to shoot anything in the last few weeks. Haven't got the backstop built. I'll let you know when we get around to shooting. I'm getting a bit bored, not having shot in a while. It's given me time to give my Mosin a thorough inspection and cleaning though.
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Old July 20, 2014, 04:45 PM   #25
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If you use a slow-acting jacket metal solvent you can just run a few patches through daily, store muzzle down & then wipe out re wet the next day, no scrubbing involved. The chemical action does the work with way less harm than brushing.
3 wet & 5 dry run through one pass from breech to muzzle is all it takes until you no longer see black residue.

Good choices are :
Hoppes #9
KG Big Bore
M-Pro-7 Copper Remover.

DO NOT do this with strong solvents using ammonia it will mess up your bore for ever.
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