The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 15, 2014, 08:30 AM   #26
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS (new to MS)
Posts: 4,781
Quote:
Another cheap choice is a NEF. Around $300 buys one new and will last for many years.
I'm going to disagree on that one. To iffy. I've seen some that shoot OK and I've seen others that group like a shotgun. The problem is that in any break-open design there can be LOTS of variablity in the machining. Encore owners go through the same thing but they are usually willing to put in some time and money into tuning a $700 firearm.
Doyle is offline  
Old July 15, 2014, 09:06 AM   #27
MarkCO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 683
The biggest thing the Marlin X7 rifles suffer from is lack of marketing. They are actually a design that mixes some of the better features, and had a lot of input from Remington's design team, with "economic". They shoot every bit as good as the bigger name bolt actions and are an exceptional value. Pillar bedded, user adjustable trigger and a decent stock (even though it is plastic). This would be my first choice. Just wish they would chamber it in .260.
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is online now  
Old July 15, 2014, 09:26 AM   #28
kajvid
Member
 
Join Date: July 4, 2014
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 32
Savage Axis .308. Bought the wife one at Big 5 for $339 with a cheap piece of glass on it. For what it is it's a deal. I would have gone the glassless route but they were out of them.
kajvid is offline  
Old July 15, 2014, 12:38 PM   #29
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,101
Quote:
Tahuna, in military rifles the magazines are considered disposable items. They're stamped metal and expected to be tossed. You can buy them for $10-$30
tell that to the US navy, one of our ship sentries was being an idiot and playing with his M16 on the catwalks and dumped his mag into the james river, for the next 3 weeks everyone on and off the ship had to submit to bag checks and metal detectors. I guess to some branches a $10 mag and 20 rounds of ammo aren't so disposable.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is online now  
Old July 15, 2014, 12:57 PM   #30
Sevens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,780
Quote:
I guess to some branches a $10 mag and 20 rounds of ammo aren't so disposable.
Or...
They wanted to stress the idea to ALL, and allow all of THEM to stress the idea to THAT ONE GUY that being an enlisted idiot is not condoned and carries consequences.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.
Sevens is offline  
Old July 15, 2014, 03:40 PM   #31
Ruger480
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2013
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 525
Quote:
I guess to some branches a $10 mag and 20 rounds of ammo aren't so disposable.
It's not about the disposability of the item. It's about the consequences if a civilian should find it and use it for nefarious purposes. Headlines read "X number wounded or dead from military issued equipment that was reported lost last week".

An incident like that would make it hard to justify budgets and maintain public support of the military in general if things like this were common place.

Quote:
They wanted to stress the idea to ALL, and allow all of THEM to stress the idea to THAT ONE GUY that being an enlisted idiot is not condoned and carries consequences
This too
Ruger480 is offline  
Old July 16, 2014, 05:47 PM   #32
bbaggs75
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2014
Posts: 2
Open to Suggestions

Those were just the rifles that I was looking at so far. I'm open to more suggestions. It seems like every time I look at a new rifle it opens a whole new can of worms. Those calibers were also just the ones offered by the Ruger American, which is kind of my #1 right now. I have thought about looking into a 300WM, but I'm just not sure. I really just want something that will shoot out over 500 yds because I would like to shoot at that distance. It's not for hunting or anything else, just because I think it's cool. I'm really open for anything that is less than (or VERY close) to $500. I was originally thinking about getting an AR in .308, but they're just too expensive for my first rifle.
bbaggs75 is offline  
Old July 16, 2014, 05:59 PM   #33
Ruger480
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2013
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 525
If you don't intend to hunt with it, look at the 243. Recoil will be much easier to handle, making for longer days at the range.
Ruger480 is offline  
Old July 16, 2014, 07:45 PM   #34
rfd
Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2014
Posts: 25
bbaggs75 -

i'm kinda sure yer fishing around without a clue as to why you want a rifle and what yer gonna do with it.

in yer first opening post you said you wanna hunt with it ... ok, hunt *what*? varmints or moose or something in between? lotta caliber lattitude in that "hunting" word, dude.

in yer last post you typed "I really just want something that will shoot out over 500 yds because I would like to shoot at that distance. It's not for hunting or anything else, just because I think it's cool." yer making no realistic sense. dunno what yer fishing for, or what/who you expect to hook.
rfd is offline  
Old July 16, 2014, 09:07 PM   #35
Sappyg
Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2014
Posts: 30
OP,

If this is to be your 1st rifle you need to set your sights a little lower. Get yourself a good 22 LR. Shoot it often and learn trigger control. Everyone needs a good 22.

500 yards is a bit dramatic. But, if you insist, I often see Savage Axis with scope for less than 5 bills.
Sappyg is offline  
Old July 16, 2014, 11:15 PM   #36
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 1,561
Quote:
you cant have great quality and low price all in one anymore.
I would say you're right, but I know of plenty of sub 500 dollar guns that are capable of 1moa or less groups. Almost every Savage I've ever seen will, along with most of the Mossbergs. I don't know about the Marlins.

To the OP, after reading the post above, what do you want to accomplish... honestly? Have you ever been hunting? If not, then are you really interested in trying it? What type of hunting? I would assume deer hunting as that is arguably the most popular form here in America. Are you wanting more of a target rifle that you might use to hunt if you decide to start hunting? For you I suggest the Savage Axis. My reason is this. Savage hangs their hat on bolt action rifles. They have all but perfected the art of making an inexpensive (albeit not the prettiest) rifle that is capable of sub moa groups out of the box so long as the shooter is capable.

A rifle like the Savage Axis is not perfect however. It will be accurate and inexpensive, but the scope that comes with the package deal will not be amazing. It will likely hold zero, but adjustments will probably be erratic and the light gathering ability and clarity of the glass will likely be pretty bad. Either way, it'll likely hold zero and that's enough to get you started. After all, you're going to want to shoot it as soon as you buy it. The stock on the Axis is going to be junk. It won't affect accuracy or anything until you try to put bipods on it (which you probably will if you want to shoot at 500+ yards). Forget about putting bipods on a Savage Axis. And further, it will not come with the accutrigger.

What the rifle does offer, though, is cheap accuracy. Also... Savage rifles are pretty modular and there are tons of aftermarket accessories. The action of the axis is the same action found on the most expensive long-action rifle that they sell. So, you can get trigger time in on your budget model. If you really like shooting, hunting, etc, you can always put a better stock on it that will allow the use of bipods. Also, there are a wide variety of aftermarket triggers available for Savage actions. You could also order a stock accutrigger from Savage or (likely cheaper) Numrich. Last but not least, if you are mechanically inclined you can change barrels and calibers on a Savage rifle via home gunsmithing because the barrel is mated to the action via a barrel nut. You cannot do this with any other brand of bolt rifle (to my knowledge) because they do not use a barrel nut, or at least not easily. It is possible to swap barrels, but you have to learn a whole new skill set of cutting a chamber with a chamber reamer (which is a pretty expensive tool). Let's just say starting with a Savage is far easier. So, I have articulated reasons why you should buy a Savage. With that, I have also heard that the Mossberg rifles shoot pretty good groups and are serviceable. I am an evangelical Savage fanboy, but I'm not a fanatic who can't recognize the abilities of another rifle. Get what you want, but I think that a cheap rifle is in order so you're not out a ton of money in case you decide not to hunt and shooting 500 yards isn't all you thought it was cracked up to be. If you do turn into an enthusiast, then the Savage has the potential to keep serving you because of the aftermarket support and ease of changing the rifle into what you want it to be. The Mossberg or other oddball rifle would likely be sold off or left in the safe as your taste, ability, preference, need, etc. has progressed beyond it's use.
5whiskey is offline  
Old July 17, 2014, 05:02 AM   #37
rfd
Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2014
Posts: 25
"you cant have great quality and low price all in one anymore."

the validity of that statement depends on your firearm needs and usage. any of the bottom feeder cf rifle brands/models offered - axis, rar, xs7, atr, etc - are more than just plinker junkers, but may not offer the consistent quality/accuracy of far higher priced rifles.

assess your rifle needs, not wants, then do some extensive homework on both calibers and rifles, gain the knowledge of exactly what's offered by the different manufacturers, and move forward. buy once, not twice, and enjoy. ymmv.
rfd is offline  
Old July 18, 2014, 11:41 AM   #38
oldscot3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2007
Location: texas
Posts: 311
Not including the scope, I've got about a $450.00 investment in my Vanguard 270 win. I took it the ranch today to shoot it for the first time. Spent 4 rounds to get it zeroed, then fired a 3 shot group at 100 yards. The first two literally went through the same hole, the third one dropped down a smidge. The result was a .400" group. Not bad for a budget rifle, right out of the box.

I didn't have time to shoot anymore, so perhaps that was a fluke. Time will tell, but so far I'm liking my Howa built budget rifle.
oldscot3 is offline  
Old July 18, 2014, 12:34 PM   #39
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS (new to MS)
Posts: 4,781
Quote:
so perhaps that was a fluke
Nope. Like I've said a few times on this forum, I've only seen one Vaguard that wouldn't shoot right straight out of the box. The problem with that one was miscut stock that a little bedding work solved.
Doyle is offline  
Old July 18, 2014, 02:44 PM   #40
ntg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2013
Location: 4B - Idaho
Posts: 105
I was looking for basically the same a little more than a year ago. I went with an X7 in 7-08 as I was given reloading supplies for it that needed to be used. I also own a Howa in 22-250 and it's a great shooter and IMO a better finished rifle vs any mentioned except maybe the T/C venture. The howa action isn't that light, however.

Also, this is one article I enjoyed and found valuable as I was deciding which 7-08 chambered rifle: Mike's RAR vs. X7 comparison

BTW my X7 has been great and it's quite a shooter, as is my Howa.

Also, I concur in thinking a detach mag is more of a hindrance than good for a hunting rifle.
ntg is offline  
Old July 18, 2014, 02:53 PM   #41
oldscot3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2007
Location: texas
Posts: 311
Two things I observed which, one or both may be a factor...

I have a Remington take off barrel in 270, compared to the Vanguard it seems to have more leade. Oal much different.

The Vanguard seems to also have a tighter chamber... certain pieces of resized brass that dropped right in the Rem chamber were snug in my Vanguard.

I'm going to Cerrosafe both chambers sometime and compare them.
oldscot3 is offline  
Old July 19, 2014, 06:52 PM   #42
cdbeagle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2012
Location: Justin Texas
Posts: 280
In your price range the Vanguard S2 is the only rifle I would buy.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...UARD+S2+270WIN
__________________
I comprehend how a projectile can, “lose velocity", but don't understand how a projectile can, "loose velocity".
cdbeagle is offline  
Old July 20, 2014, 01:38 AM   #43
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 1,989
With your last post and the fact your not going to carry it all day hunting , I'd go with a 20" heavy or bull barrel . Short action 308 only because of the cost and amount of ammo available . If not 308 , I'd stay with the short action in 7-08 , or 243 . . Really if your taking hunting/shooting game off the table a nice 223 will get you to 500yds nicely at a nice low cost per shot .

Howa 1500 would get you the above for $500 or less . I think you could find a Rem 700 for close to that as well . Both of those rifles are easy to customize later with lots of after market parts available for both .
__________________
As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old
Metal god is offline  
Old July 20, 2014, 03:12 AM   #44
barnetmill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2005
Posts: 117
I noticed several of the posts focusing on sub MOA groups. That degree of accuracy is needed for varmit hunting, but not much else. 2.5 MOA in theory with hit a 7.5 inch circle every time at three hundred yards.
barnetmill is offline  
Old July 20, 2014, 10:19 AM   #45
oldscot3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2007
Location: texas
Posts: 311
I thought 2.5 moa at 100yd.s would be 10 inches at 300yd.s.I think it doubles every 100yd.s.

Nope, I'm wrong. Barnetmill was correct with 7.5". Please pardon my brainfart.

Last edited by oldscot3; July 20, 2014 at 01:23 PM.
oldscot3 is offline  
Old July 20, 2014, 07:12 PM   #46
nwtradegun
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2014
Posts: 2
rifle

try roy's gun service in Adairsville, ga. 770-77303548.
nwtradegun is offline  
Old July 20, 2014, 10:00 PM   #47
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,781
Quote:
you don't intend to hunt with it, look at the 243. Recoil will be much easier to handle, making for longer days at the range.
By this logic, a .223 would be twice as nice, and .22lr double that.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old July 20, 2014, 11:45 PM   #48
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 1,989
Quote:
By this logic, a .223 would be twice as nice, and .22lr double that.
yes I agree that is good logic . Well not the 22lr part because he wants to shoot 500yds with this rifle .

Here is my quote and good logic from above
Quote:
the fact your not going to carry it all day hunting , I'd go with a 20" heavy or bull barrel . Short action 308 only because of the cost and amount of ammo available . If not 308 , I'd stay with the short action in 7-08 , or 243 . . Really if your taking hunting/shooting game off the table a nice 223 will get you to 500yds nicely at a nice low cost per shot .
Although not the same advice , it's kinda close
__________________
As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old
Metal god is offline  
Old July 21, 2014, 12:15 AM   #49
Model12Win
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 514
You could always get a Moison Nagant rifle in 7.62x54R.

Same ballistics as .30-06 but the shells are MUCH cheaper. Very accurate rifles for under $150.
Model12Win is offline  
Old July 21, 2014, 01:21 AM   #50
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,101
um... no. unless you are buying hornady match ammo($1.50 a round) and have a Finnish rework, odds of having a long range target rifle are several thousand to one.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is online now  
Reply

Tags
.270 , .30-06 , marlin , ruger american , savage axis

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14309 seconds with 7 queries