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Old May 19, 2014, 08:40 PM   #1
RickE
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New to 7.62x39 options

I am fairly knowledgeable about various "traditional" weapons. But the "assault" rifle category is one I am looking to add. I want one for the fun of shooting one, and because I feel the need to buy one before the current (don't get me going) administration makes it illegal. I want to start with a good model for under $700. I have been looking at the USA built Century 39, or the Romanian (imported / altered) MM Mac 10. I am not looking to customize it, maybe a couple upgrades, but do not plan to focus too much on making it "trick" unit. any help is much appreciated.
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Old May 20, 2014, 12:13 AM   #2
tahunua001
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the member "plouffdaddy" just did a review on the C39 recently, it's still fairly easy to find on this forum. my experience with the romanian AKs is less than stellar, I would never recommend one. I would sooner recommend an SKS or better yet, an AR15 chambered in 7.62x39 than either of those.

this is just my opinion, and it's worth exactly what you paid for it, but unless you are willing to shell out quite a bit more than $700, you are not likely to be disappointed.
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Old May 20, 2014, 12:21 AM   #3
kilimanjaro
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Tahuna beat me to it, but do not overlook a good Russian SKS, for about half of your stated budget.

An AR in 7.62x39 will beat an AK any day of the week.
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Old May 20, 2014, 08:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
An AR in 7.62x39 will beat an AK any day of the week.
Beat it at what, exactly?
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Old May 20, 2014, 11:42 AM   #5
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Npap ak47s have a good reputation from what I've read. The only complaint I read is "cheek slap". Doesn't sound that pleasant. I almost bought an ak recently but went the ar route instead. The century 39 was at the top of my list. I've shot the cheap century arms aks and had no complaints. I guess its hit or miss on the quality.
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Old May 20, 2014, 12:01 PM   #6
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Lots of good reviews for N-Paps and O-Paps for sub-$700 AKM-47 rifles. They give lots of value in the $530 range. The C39 looks good too. Looks like you can't go wrong with any of the above mentioned rifles.
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Old May 20, 2014, 12:35 PM   #7
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The AK platform is notoriously INaccurate & just as notoriously robust.
The AR platfomr is/can be superbly accurate and very robust but maybe not as tough as the AK.
I saw a documentary not too long ago where the South African Police were sent to recover a stash of AKs & ammo.
The stash was found in a cave, the AKs on the ground in the dirt.
One S.A. cop picked one rusted AK out of the dirt, poured motor oil all over it, put in a 30round mag, & fired all 30 rounds without a stoppage & the heat set the gun on fire.
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Old May 20, 2014, 12:49 PM   #8
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For fit and finish, my vote is for the NPAP for your budget. I recently got an underfolder, and hope to have it out this weekend. Assuming it works as intended (as all the reviews I read say), fit and finish is just as good as a polytech legend or the best arsenal ak I've seen. Romanians go bang most of the time but lack the feel of quality without some sprucing up with better finish of wood and metal.
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Old May 20, 2014, 01:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
The AK platform is notoriously INaccurate & just as notoriously robust.
The AR platfomr is/can be superbly accurate and very robust but maybe not as tough as the AK.
That's some notoriously INaccurate information.

The AK plaform can be quite accurate. A have a 7.62x39mm Saiga that can shoot 2.5 MOA with cheap steel-cased ammo all day long. Which is about the same as most ARs will shoot bulk M855 or M193. I suggest you also review MAC's recent video showing him easily ring steel at 500 yards with a 7.62x39mm VEPR. Yes - the ultimate accuracy of the AR will be better (mostly due to the ingenious design on the barrel extension), but the chasm is not as wide as you would think. The myth of AK inaccuracy has been propagated by Hollywood, the spray-and-pray tactics of the many poorly-trained militias worldwide that use the AK, the widely varying quality of the AKs out there, and the simple fact that the the standard sights of the AK are harder to shoot accurately with than the excellent irons usually found on ARs.

AKs can vary quite a bit in accuracy and "robustness" due to the wide range of variants and makers our there. Some are fantastic. Some are notoriously fragile and unreliable (due to poorly heat-treated receivers, low quality barrels, poorly cut mag wells, etc).

Over the last 50+ years, the AR has developed into a superbly robust system. There is not much that one would expect to break under hard usage, and the AR's weak link - it's magazine design - has long since been remedied with improved products. Like the AK, its robustness all depends on the quality of the maker and the materials used.


.

Last edited by Fishbed77; May 20, 2014 at 01:32 PM.
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Old May 20, 2014, 02:22 PM   #10
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the ar in 7.62x39 is easier to assemble, and clean and modify without gunsmithing

but an ak has advantage in reliability and durability

its as i say

Russian verly simple and durable

American: quality and well built

German: over engineered but highly functional
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Old May 20, 2014, 02:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
The AK plaform can be quite accurate.
I agree. Below is a 1.56" group with iron sights and tired old eyes.

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Old May 20, 2014, 02:53 PM   #12
Duzell
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pfft 100 yards, lets move that out


300-400 would be a better range to show accuracy and range

now the ar15 rounds thats close to it is the 300 aac and is not as affordable but just as dependable


both rounds go to 600 yards easy with a max KE output at 450 yards roughly
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Old May 20, 2014, 03:20 PM   #13
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RickE, I recommend that you search for an old Norinco type 56S or an equivalent Poly Tech AK.
The Chinese produce an excellent AK, and they are well worth the premium price people get for them.
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Old May 20, 2014, 09:59 PM   #14
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Alright I will post a few observations since this thread is full of naysayers that know better than everyone else.
1. In general, the ar15 is a much more accurate rifle than the ak. Not ALL ar15s are more accurate than ALL ak47s but generally speaking this is a true statement.
2. There are inaccurate ar15s just as there are very well built ak47s that are very accurately.
3. If you spend $800 on an ak and another $800 on another ar15 then odds are the ar15 is going to be the more accurate rifle. Comparing a custom built ak47 to millions of mass produced rifles is kindof pointless and heavily biased.
4. the guys quoting 2.5 inch groups with cheap steel cased ammo are entitled to their opinions of their weapons superior accuracy. However the sub moa groups i get from my ar15 with wolf steel cased is in no way indicative of the ar15s accuracy as a whole.
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Old May 20, 2014, 11:44 PM   #15
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RickE:
About ten minutes browsing through "SKSboards" might also help your evaluation of rifles which are a really good value.

As we can never anticipate timing of the next tragedy which can result in a panic, it never hurts to first buy a chunk of a specific sort of ammo before selecting the gun, once the budget is defined.

Last edited by Ignition Override; May 20, 2014 at 11:50 PM.
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Old May 21, 2014, 01:44 AM   #16
chris in va
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I'll be honest. I had a Saiga conversion and really didn't warm up to it. Adding optics is a PITA, accuracy is...meh, and I couldn't reload for it.

I sold it and got an AR. It just makes more sense.
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Old May 21, 2014, 08:05 AM   #17
Drhc116
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You may want to look into a MAK 90 as well. They are very nice rifles for the money. I have had multiple AK variants but have never warmed up to the platform. The only 7.62x39 rifles I have currently are an unconverted Saiga (love the no pistol grip) and 2 SKSs (IMO the best utilitarian 7.62x39 rifle out there).

Which ever way you go if you take your time and look the rifle over before you purchase and come to like the ergonomics of the AK (i personally do not) you can find one in your budget that will serve you very well.
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Old May 21, 2014, 10:29 AM   #18
Fishbed77
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Quote:
4. the guys quoting 2.5 inch groups with cheap steel cased ammo are entitled to their opinions of their weapons superior accuracy. However the sub moa groups i get from my ar15 with wolf steel cased is in no way indicative of the ar15s accuracy as a whole.
I was stating a fact. Not an opinion. Just as I stated that there is a wide variety in the accuracy and quality of the many makes of AK and AR out there, and the design of the AR is capable of greater ultimate accuracy than the AK design (due to many factors).

However, to state that all AKs are notoriously inaccurate (and ARs are not robust) is... well... notoriously inaccurate.
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Old May 21, 2014, 09:09 PM   #19
tahunua001
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the fellow that posted that AKs were notoriously innaccurate never once used the word "ALL".
true it was an over generalization however we seem to be splitting hairs here.
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Old May 21, 2014, 09:21 PM   #20
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The best option, in my opinion, is don't. Get an improved round in an improved platform. The 6.8 SPC II is what the 7.62x39 should have been and more. And well, I don't think you can get it in platforms other than AR15 or turnbolts - and why would you want to? Just my .02.
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Old May 21, 2014, 09:36 PM   #21
Duzell
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blackout is another option

but i wont knock the 7.62x39

even in a sks system it can be pretty lethal and consistent
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Old May 21, 2014, 09:52 PM   #22
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Traditionally the AK was built loose and reliable, the AR tight and accurate. Now, you can build either of them however you want to build them. Having said that, its a lot easier to build a tack driver on an AR platform than an AK platform. It is also a lot easier to make an AK run with the action full of sand than it is to make an AR run when it has a bunch of sand in it.
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Old May 22, 2014, 02:28 AM   #23
bamaranger
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WASR ?

Why not one of the WASR rifles? These things seem common enough in my area and are under the OP's starting price. If you get a "bad" one, trade/sell and start over.

Ammo and mags common as well.

Expecting better than 3-6 MOA from a budget AK with cheap import ammo is likely asking too much, but if better accuracy is required, for whatever reason, a run of the mill AK is probably not the right platform.

But if "minute of irritant" is good enough, in a rifle you won't mind scratching, and can neglect and abuse, and can find ammo and mags nearly everywhere, the budget AK works.
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Old May 22, 2014, 12:00 PM   #24
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Really it depends on what you want the rifle for. If you are one of those shooters that never get off the bench and think that the size of bench rest groups is the measure of a rifles worth, then by all means an AR type rifle will be the "best".

If you are the type that likes to stand on your feet like a man and shoot at miscellaneous targets out in the desert, an AK or SKS is a fun rifle to plink with. If you don't reload, the fact that you can buy inexpensive steel case ammo is a big plus.

I find it rather funny that so many seem to think that you can only shoot and enjoy one type of gun. I have a couple AR's and I like them. For many years I felt that the common rifles chambered in 7.62X39 were inaccurate and uninteresting.

Then I bought a Yugo AK47 and I discovered a new world of just shooting for the fun of it. No worrying about picking up the brass or worrying about why my groups were a half inch bigger than the last time I shot. I have found that I like center fire plinking so much that I bought a second Yugo (underfolder this time) and a couple Russian SKS's.

For many years I have eschewed sitting at a bench and trying for the smallest group, to me that is as exciting as watching paint dry. I like to do position shooting and I use all my rifles at various ranges.

Yes, I have found that it is just as much fun to shoot my underfolding AK47 offhand at the 300 yard gong as it is to shoot my M1A or one of my AR's.

In fact it is more challenging to make consistent hits with a SKS than a match tuned AR. To me, the added difficulty just adds to the challenge. I also shoot my 1884 Trapdoor Springfield at the same 300 yard gong, talk about a challenge!
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Old May 22, 2014, 01:04 PM   #25
Duzell
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i found my sks shoots well if its feed good ammo. And will go to the max range of my shooting range no problem.

but the ar15 is very low recoil if its setup with an HBAR and is much higher in accuracy.

ive been personally wanting an ak variant for a while, but because of CA issues i have trouble locating one.(did find a saiga once, and i was low on cash so no go)

i just plan to build a ar15 that uses the round, and thats about as close as i can get to owning an AK. the ar with the 7.62 needs specific parts to fire and function correctly

but one day i hope to have my saiga . till then i search.

the aks are dependable and highly durable and can take loads of abuse before jamming. the original m16 (ar15 grandad) had issues with dirt and feeds, which have been adapted to the m4/ar15 system to be higher in dependability

the concept ive seen in engineering is this. the more complex the system, the more can go wrong, the simpler the system, the more dependable.


compare a mauser to a mosin, the one is fine German engineering but there can be issues with the bolt system, while the mosin is cheap and its bolts simplicity make it very dependable shooter. but both are quality marksmen rifles. and have earned their stripes in combat


your going to have to figure out what you want in a rifle and how your going to use it. were it will be used, and its dependence on cleaning are some factors to think on
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