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Old May 15, 2014, 06:09 PM   #1
wolfe 21
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AR build ?s

Ok, so I've decided I want to build an AR just to have one...or I should say assemble one. I'll preface by saying I've never so much as fired an AR, so this is purely a learning experience and my knowledge is limited to say the least.

I have a stripped lower(Anderson manufacturing) and am in the process of buying an LPK and assembled upper and was hoping for some guidance from those in the know... I'm thinking I'd like a mid-length gas system, 1/7 or 1/8 barrel with either 5.56 or 223 wylde chamber, 16" barrel, Full auto BCG, and mil-spec fire control. Cloning a close quarters/entry gun with red dot optics for inside 150-200 yards.

My questions are:
1. Should a first gun have fixed iron sights. F marked front and buis rear will be most likely, maybe removable carry handle.
2. What type of barrel material. I'm kind of liking the stainless for looks, but how is durability. (not gonna be high round count gun, but I'd like to know I could if I had to).
3. Does any one chamber have an advantage?

I'm leaning towards these right now
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...rifle-kit.html
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...rifle-kit.html
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...-and-mbus.html

Thanks,
James
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Old May 15, 2014, 06:38 PM   #2
wolfe 21
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found this too, looks kind of interesting...
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...er&groupid=750
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Old May 15, 2014, 10:34 PM   #3
Fishbed77
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Of the options you posted, the Spike's upper is the best of the bunch. Spike's makes an excellent product.

If you want the go the PSA route, avoid the "PTAC" or "Freedom" route and go with their "Classic" or "Premium" uppers/kits.
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Old May 16, 2014, 12:08 AM   #4
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PSA... You want the premium line.

Spikes is good too.


Mid length is a good way to go.
5.56 is a good chamber, and accurate out of a well made barrel.
Stainless will not last as long as a chrome lined or melinite/nitride treated barrel.

I run fixed front and rear sights with a red dot and lower 1/3 cowitness. I am using the Troy fixed rear ATM, they don't need much room.
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Old May 16, 2014, 12:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfe 21
1. Should a first gun have fixed iron sights. F marked front and buis rear will be most likely, maybe removable carry handle.
It depends what your purpose is. If you're only going to be using the iron sights, fixed ones will be a little more durable. If you're planning on adding an optic later, you're going to want the rear to flip down (unless you're planning to co-witness with a red dot). The front sight doesn't need to flip down, but you're going to see a fuzzy outline of it with any scope below about 4x. Above that, you're not going to see it at all.

I'm going to show my personal bias and strongly advise against a removable carry handle: In my opinion, it's the most useless AR accessory there is. You're not supposed to actually carry it by the carry handle (in the Marine Corps it was a BIG no-no), and the removable ones hardly have enough room to get your fingers in there anyway. If you want the rear sight like the one that's on the carry handle, just get a stand-alone non-flip rear sight and you'll save some weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfe 21
2. What type of barrel material. I'm kind of liking the stainless for looks, but how is durability. (not gonna be high round count gun, but I'd like to know I could if I had to).
Chrome-lined barrels will be a bit more durable than stainless, but stainless tends to be a little more accurate. However, nitriding is starting to replace chrome-lining; it's more durable than chrome-lining and it's cheaper to do. But the military still specs chrome so that's what many people still want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfe 21
3. Does any one chamber have an advantage?
I suppose a Wylde chamber will be a little more accurate with .223 than a 5.56 chamber in theory, but I doubt you'll ever notice the difference.
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Old May 18, 2014, 02:23 PM   #6
wolfe 21
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Will be primarily a range gun, maybe a varmint rig if it proves sufficiently accurate within 200 yards. Honestly, I'm just looking for experience with the platform and a comparison against an ak-47 I have intentions of purchasing in the future..
Either way, it'll be a red dot or <5x optic equipped gun. I like the look of the rail running out to the flash hider and flip up buis, just not the $ they usually command. I'm thinking the spikes upper is probably the way I'll go... especially since it's already wearing Moe furniture.
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Old May 20, 2014, 04:09 AM   #7
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In that case, i don't think fixed sights are necessary. If you like the look, go for it. If you want cheaper flip up sights, you can always go the used route. PSA also offers some flip up sights at a decent price.
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Old May 20, 2014, 07:55 AM   #8
wolfe 21
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Who makes a good parts kit with a good mil-spec trigger? Ive seen cmmg, rock river, stag all offer kits, plus the PSA kits on their website. Also heard their triggers are best used for paperweights, so..? CMMG looks beginner friendly being color coded and separated into different assemblies.
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Old May 20, 2014, 08:09 AM   #9
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rra 2-stage triggers are nice. i've always bought rra's because all of my friends end up putting rra triggers in their rifles anyways.
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Old May 20, 2014, 12:31 PM   #10
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The CMMG trigger kits are nice, and yes they are easy to use for your first time. The RRA Stage 2 triggers are also a good bet for a decent trigger. Both are better than all three of the PSA triggers I have started with.
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Old May 20, 2014, 08:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Also heard their triggers are best used for paperweights
I am assuming "their" is PSA you are referring to.....and that is absolutely not true. I have gotten some pretty decent triggers from PSAs lower parts kits in fact better than the factory trigger that came on my M&P15T a $1500.00 AR when I bought it (yea I got screwed it was right after O-Bummer's first election)Your not going to be winning matches with any mil spec trigger. If you really want a good trigger check out Geissele triggers they are good, but you are going to pay for it.
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Old May 21, 2014, 12:19 AM   #12
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If it's just a range gun and not some match gun, PSA trigger will do fine. CMMG and RRA also make nice triggers(i like CMMG having color coding bags. I think it's a very nice touch for a beginner). Honestly, i'd go with whichever of the three is cheapest and not bat an eye. Then again, having a super crisp trigger isn't a big deal for me on my range gun. YMMV.
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Old May 21, 2014, 11:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Also heard their triggers are best used for paperweights
I have 3 PSA trigger groups and every one of them is as good as or better than any other standard semi-automatic AR trigger I've encountered.
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Old May 22, 2014, 06:07 PM   #14
wolfe 21
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K, guess I'll take advantage of the PSA memorial day sale and order up the parts to finish off my lower.
One question, is the MOE PLUS grip worth a $10 upgrade over the standard Moe grip? I'm looking @ psa Moe lower kits, mostly for the extended trigger guards. Guess if I don't like it I can always eBay/trade it with someone...
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Old May 22, 2014, 06:57 PM   #15
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You roll the dice with PSA lower parts kit triggers. I'd get a LPK without trigger group and go with an ALG ACT. Smoothest, polished mil spec trigger I've used. I have a great PSA trigger as well but I also have one that is terribly gritty.
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Old May 22, 2014, 07:33 PM   #16
wolfe 21
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Honestly, I probably couldn't tell the difference between a good trigger and a bad one. I just want one that will assemble correctly, easily and without modifications to the parts.
if I decide I like ars, I will build a nicer one in an spr setup with better parts and probably upgrade this one.
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Old May 22, 2014, 08:19 PM   #17
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Top shelf guns and hobby guns are so cheap now that I don't believe its worth it to build an AR15 any more unless you just want to experience building one and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Old May 23, 2014, 03:24 AM   #18
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It is a wash. You can buy one for about the price it takes to build one. However other than the fun of building you can also decide on the components used on your AR. That way you wont have to buy after market stuff for the pre built gun.
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Old May 23, 2014, 01:12 PM   #19
wolfe 21
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Yeah, I'm doing it mainly to say I did. Lot more involved than I originally thought, but it's kinda like legos for adults.
Anybody got an opinion of del-ton parts/uppers? Found a mid length 1/9 for about $400. Means with lpk & miscellaneous parts I'd be about $550 into the gun... before optic & furniture (not factory Moe equipped like the spikes upper). Not chrome lined though..

Last edited by wolfe 21; May 23, 2014 at 01:19 PM.
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Old May 23, 2014, 03:44 PM   #20
wolfe 21
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looking like a toss up between these two:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ng-handle.html

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/128...ProductFinding

Or maybe the spikes from above...
Opinions?

Last edited by wolfe 21; May 23, 2014 at 04:47 PM.
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Old May 23, 2014, 10:49 PM   #21
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Either or, really . They both will work . I have both brands and I've seen no real difference . Both go bang every time and both are accurate .

My dad just bought that PSA 223 Wylde kit in your first post a week ago to put on a Spikes MOE lower . Some say just buy complete . I'm not sure you can buy a complete rifle like the one he is building for less then 1k .

16" Barrel length
416 Stainless steel barrel
223 Wylde Chamber
1 in 8" twist rate
Lead-lapped bore
M4 Feed ramps
MI SS12G2 free-float Rail
A2 Flash Hider
Forged upper receiver
T-Marks
M16 Bolt Carrier
HPT/MPI Carpenter 158 Bolt

on a Spikes MOE lower . After I buy the classic lower build kit from him his total cost for the rifle is $770 delivered . I've looked around and can't find anything with those specs for less then 1k
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Old June 2, 2014, 01:48 AM   #22
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here she is

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Old June 2, 2014, 09:48 PM   #23
Fishbed77
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Very nice-looking rifle.

I think he will be quite pleased with it.
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Old June 2, 2014, 10:11 PM   #24
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the way I see it, if you are going to pay for a 16 inch barrel, you may as well actually get that extra inch and a half of barrel and the velocity and accuracy that comes with it. one is a 14.5 inch barrel with a flash hider welded to it. the other is a 16 inch barrel with a removable/replaceable/suppressor ready flash hider.
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Old June 3, 2014, 04:34 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahunua001
if you are going to pay for a 16 inch barrel, you may as well actually get that extra inch and a half of barrel and the velocity and accuracy that comes with it.
You'll get a little bit more velocity, but not accuracy; a longer barrel doesn't make a gun more accurate.
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