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Old June 1, 2014, 08:46 PM   #101
Unlicensed Dremel
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I'm going to guess that they mean 7mm REMINGTON Magnum
Of course he meant that - that's why I omitted it - because it's NOT the only one out there in 7mm; not even close; not even when limited to "magnums" - which is the point - people shouldn't assume that everyone thinks that 7mm Rem mag is the only 7mm in the world, as many people do - it's very annoying - there are a myriad of chamberings - they need to be ID'ed by their proper names so we're on the same page without confusion. I'm trying to get HIM to say that - "7mm REMINGTON magnum", just like you did, by omitting it. Ain't no such thing as a "Seb'n mag", contrary to popular belief - never has been and never will be.

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There is nothing in this world that hasn't been killed with the '06.
Kinda doubt that.... Blue Whale?

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Old June 2, 2014, 12:48 PM   #102
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270 WSM compared to 270 Win

Faster, flatter shooting - pro's.

More recoil, more expensive bullets - con's

130 grain bullets for mulies and antelope. 150 grain for elk. A 500 yarder for any/all of the above. Maybe further, if the shooter is competent.

I'm just saying.
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Old June 2, 2014, 01:39 PM   #103
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re:270WSM

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More recoil, more expensive bullets - con's
The .277" bullets are the same for both......

The brass is expensive and hard to find, though.....
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Old June 2, 2014, 01:49 PM   #104
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Jim, you beat me to it. WSM doesn't have more expensive bullets, just more expensive, harder to find brass, and very limited factory ammo. Other than that the .270 WSM is easily one of the best performing cartridges out there, with the .270 Winchester following closely behind, IMO.
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Old June 2, 2014, 02:05 PM   #105
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Jim, you beat me to it. WSM doesn't have more expensive bullets, just more expensive, harder to find brass, and very limited factory ammo. Other than that the .270 WSM is easily one of the best performing cartridges out there, with the .270 Winchester following closely behind, IMO.
The 30-06 can do anything the 270 wants to do and a little more!

Sorry, couldn't resist
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Old June 2, 2014, 02:35 PM   #106
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The 30-06 can do anything the 270 wants to do and a little more!
If you mean being slower and able to be pushed by the wind more, then you nailed it brutha!

One (small) thing the .270 WSM DOES do is come from the factory in very high-quality ammo with very high-BC bullets:

http://www.nosler.com/trophy-grade-long-range/

That's something the .270 win and .30-'06 don't do. But the .270 win (original) is still one of the finest ever, obviously, as is the .30-'06, as is the one smack dab in between the two, .280 rem - the finest all-purpose big-game cartridge ever created, so far, quite likely.
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Old June 2, 2014, 03:13 PM   #107
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One (small) thing the .270 WSM DOES do is come from the factory in very high-quality ammo with very high-BC bullets:
So does the 270 Winchester:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/184...ange-box-of-20

Funny it's not on the Nosler site?
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Old June 2, 2014, 03:38 PM   #108
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So does the 270 Winchester:
I agree.

There's also great high BC choices for reloading despite what many people think.
130 grain .277 with a G1 BC of .540
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/928...ProductFinding

150 grain Nosler ABLR G1 BC .625

How heavy do you have to go in the .30's to get BC's like that? And there's no chance you'd get bullets heavy enough to match those BC's to the same velocity unless you move up to a .300 win mag or even bigger.
I consider .270 to be 'better' on paper than .30-06 because it will shoot bullets with comparable sectional densities faster and flatter than the 06 with equal if not better BC's. And depending on the load, will shoot bullets of equal weight (and higher SD's) almost as fast, if not as fast as the 06'

150 grain .30-06
SD .226
BC ~.435
Velocity ~2910 fps

150 grain .270 win
SD .279
BC ~up to .625
Velocity ~2830-3000 fps
If we compare bullet with comparable SD's
120 grain .270 win
SD .223
BC ~up to .460 (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479...ProductFinding)
Velocity- easily in excess of 3200fps.

The way I see it the .270 is measurably better on paper. Game wont likely know the difference, when they're hit in the same spot. (but IMO .270 is easier to shoot making accurate hits easier) but the .308 cal still has more choices for projectiles, much wider projectile weight selection for factory ammo, and longer barrel life.

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Old June 3, 2014, 08:23 AM   #109
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So does the 270 Winchester:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/184...ange-box-of-20

Funny it's not on the Nosler site?
Ahhh, very interesting, thanks.

Yeah, if you want to hunt & shoot a lot, and are on a really tight budget, and shoot factory ammo only, here's the best best, in order:

1. .30-30 win
2. .243 win
3. (tie) .270 win or .30-'06
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Old June 3, 2014, 11:09 AM   #110
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Yeah, if you want to hunt & shoot a lot, and are on a really tight budget, and shoot factory ammo only, here's the best best, in order:

1. .30-30 win
2. .243 win
3. (tie) .270 win or .30-'06
I think the OP's original question has been lost. Remember he already has a 243 and wants something bigger:

Quote:
I figure it is time to get something for elk, mule deer, etc.
Given that, I don't think the 30-30 or the 243 are appropriate answers.
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Old June 3, 2014, 11:22 AM   #111
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He doesn't "need" anything bigger. (My 243 has handled all three of what he wants to take down).
Above that, the 30-06 is the obvious "no-brainer" choice for any number of reasons.

......BUT......

If the OP really were to get into reloading, ...and the OP really were to look into his LGS used guns...
He'd likely run into a 375 H&H that some non-reloader bought and discarded as too much gun...
That he could load UP, and he could load DOWN -- for anything from coyotes to elephant.
And long-range ballistics to match any 30-06.

243Win/375H&H: The ultimate Two-Gun/Do-Everything combination.
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Old June 3, 2014, 08:01 PM   #112
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He'd likely run into a 375 H&H that some non-reloader bought and discarded as too much gun...
There are easier cartrigdes to load for than the Holland & Holland, as I understand it ..... and the brass for that is, IME, as common on the local shelves as jai-alai cestas- read about them, never them seen in person ..... both can be ordered on the internet, I am sure ...... just be prepared to pay moar than a buck a piece for thae brass .....

.375 bullets are not exactly common, or cheap, either.

The basic idea is sound, though: If you roll your own, it greatly increases the versatility and economy of almost any cartridge ......
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Old June 3, 2014, 08:21 PM   #113
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I have only seen one used .375 H&H for sale in my life. It was a double barrel that had too many zeroes in the price for me. Varmint shooting with the .375 H&H would be, at best, impractical.
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Old June 3, 2014, 08:48 PM   #114
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I've seen several, and bought one of that last three since growing up w/ my father's back in the 1950s. Mine is now a Ruger M77 African. The other two were CZ's brought to the range about five years ago by two (very attractive ) women in their mid 30s who were setting up for an Africa trip. (So much for "too much gun")

After bedding, the Ruger is reliably sub minute of angle -- easily minute of California ground squirrel at 200 yards as proved to the amused chagrin of my hunting partner back in `90.

And since I handload, it's no more trouble than my`06 and I simply size/headspace on the shoulder like anything else.

As to even smaller vermits ...., well that's what the 243's for.

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Old June 4, 2014, 02:08 PM   #115
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243Win/375H&H: The ultimate Two-Gun/Do-Everything combination
Hmmmm, not a half-bad l'il plan - can't argue with that. In fact, I may agree exactly or just almost. Of course, no right or wrong answer. I "cover" worldwide large game hunting (now), at least in theory, with just 5 rifles. Actually just 4 since the 5th is really a "wife/backup" hunter. This is WAY down from the old days - even just a year ago, it would have been at least 6 or 7. Now if you add varminters, general purpose rimfires, and combo longguns, the number goes way up quickly (triples from 4), but the varminters double as fun target guns, as do some of the rimfires. But for any largish edible game, it's *just* four rifles now. Maaaay cut that to 3, but I doubt it. If anything, I'm more likely to add one (get back in the .45-70 game with an 1895 SBL) than to cut one out and go to just 3.

I'm generally very happy with simplifying, and will continue to do so to some extent. Not counting bows and edged weapons, I finally pared down enough to achieve the 30-or-less weapon threshold (guns & muzzleloaders) - actually only 26, but four more guns I want. But since I enjoy bowhunting more, I have a lot more bows now. Used to have 1 or 2; now it's 5 and counting, between bows & crossbows. It makes sense to keep going in that direction (more bows; fewer rifles), since the season is longer, practice is cheaper, and I enjoy it more than rifle hunting. I will probably settle near the 25 guns & muzzleloaders / 8 bows marks. But the guns include defensive handguns, shotguns, and carbines. Obviously, the goal here is to hunt more, and collect/store/insure/maintain less.

Also, if you don't know, there are many reasonably-priced turnbolts for sale nowadays in .375 HH mag - if you keep checking gunbroker, armslist, etc., you can occasionally find a CZ 550 for sub-$900, which is an excellent rifle. Sub-$800 possibly even. And these are typically in excellent condition (not fired much. ).

Back to the original question: Really, IMO, what it comes down to is this: If you don't reload, you want a .270 win or a .30-'06. (.270 win if mostly plains / desert / loooong range, or .30-'06 if not mostly plains/desert).

If you reload, then it's wide open. If you have a lot of money to replace barrels and feed the rifle, why not get a laser like a .270 WSM or a 26 Nosler? But lots of options for the more padded wallet, and/or reloader, including the same "big two" mentioned above (.270 & .30-'06). Whatever butters your bread. To me, .260 rem or 6.5x55, and .280 rem are where it's at for North America, if you want to go bigger than .243 win. But it's hard to go wrong with any mainstream or semi-mainstream choice in a 6.5 or 7mm - as well as *most* .30 cals - .300 WSM is a good/ interesting choice if you want a lot of downrange energy (like plains elk at 400 yards on a regular basis, let's say).

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Old June 5, 2014, 08:43 AM   #116
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I've killed a bunch of deer and a few elk and I am trying to remember a shot where I think it would have made any difference which of the usual suspects I shot it with. I can't make a 500 yard shot so that doesn't enter in to it. It's nice to have something that will go through an elk's shoulder, but a 270 or 30-06 with good bullets will do that at reasonable ranges. Most any common center fire with good bullets will go through an average NC deer's shoulder. Or, you could just not take a quartering shot or pull it that way.
But, all these cartridges that do basically the same thing make for good conversation I suppose.
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Old June 7, 2014, 10:38 PM   #117
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Quote:
McGee,

Your shill for Weatherby products is not believable.

The Weathery co. has the reputation for loud, heavy recoiling guns made in japan (they started and lost ww2) with freebore (pre-worn throats) and expensive ammo.

The inlays they put in their garish guns smack of white wall tires on kids toys.
Not all weatherby are ugly... And if the actually gun fits you correctly, the stock design in my experience actually helps with the recoil.. Many quality firearms are made in Japan these days include most Browning products including the massively successful Browning Citori o/u shotguns.. The World War II reference inferring the inherent inferiority of a Japanese built product, reeks of a high level of ethnocentrism... And by the way.. The Weatherby Mark V has been built in Germany, Japan and they are currently being produced right here in the USA..

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Old June 8, 2014, 07:55 AM   #118
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Hmmm, never heard of Weatherbys having "pre-worn throats" - which ones have supposedly "too much freebore"? Mk Vs or Vanguards?
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Old June 8, 2014, 08:03 PM   #119
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Maybe it's the "pre-worn throats" that make their accuracy guarantee possible.
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Old June 8, 2014, 09:08 PM   #120
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Yep, must be. I have never shot a WBY that was not accurate. The only one that I have shot that was not sub-moa was a .460. Who knows? It might have been sub-moa capable if I were sadistic enough to actually endure load development for it.
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Old June 9, 2014, 08:30 AM   #121
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Maybe I have no sense of aesthetics, but I've rather liked my Mark V '06, these last 43 years. Sub-MOA is good, last I heard. And I guess I'm so ignorant about cartridges that I couldn't possibly have made one-shot kills at 450 and 350 yards with it. I just didn't know it wasn't an up-close-and-personal cartridge, maybe?

Which doesn't take anything away from the .270, another cartridge I loaded for back in the 1960s.

If you know what you're doing, it's pretty much six of one, half-dozen of the other.
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Old June 9, 2014, 10:39 AM   #122
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Art... Haven't you heard? The '06 is an old fuddy-duddy cartridge. I've read that even cave men were pooping on it during the stone age.
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Old June 9, 2014, 06:21 PM   #123
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I heard .30-'06 just stops mid-air then drops like a rock at 50 yards.
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Old June 10, 2014, 12:44 AM   #124
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I couldn't call myself an American if I didn't own an '06. And yes, If I could only own one rifle, that's what it would be.
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Old June 10, 2014, 08:01 PM   #125
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Well, now, Mr. Dremel, y'all just go on out there to fifty-one yards and we'll see what we can find out.
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