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Old April 28, 2014, 12:17 PM   #51
Chaz88
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Well you already have more information than I can sort through. I will just add a vote for the 7mm Rem Mag. It has done everything I have aver asked of it. I do not think it is responsible, or a shot I would ever consider, but I watched a very good shooter take an antelope with one at a bit over 1500 yards. So if you can shoot well, in the normal hunting ranges, it will do the job.
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Old April 28, 2014, 01:06 PM   #52
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I shoot every cartridge the OP has on his list and have done load work up with the one I don't have, the .300 WSM. Did it for my ex-son in law who is still my hunting partner.
Normally I limit my shots to 300 to 350 yards unless I'm carrying my .300 Win. Mag. I also understand the sometimes necessity of either taking or passing up a 500+ shot. Think Area 1 in Arizona when elk hunting. My last Arizona elk was shot at a lasered 530 yards with my .300 Win. Mag.
Frankly, up until he said he had to pass on some 500 yards shot on deer I would have suggested the 30-06 first, then the .270, 7mm Rem. Mag and finally the .300. I have no idea what the OP's tolerence for recoil is which is why I held off on the .300 as first choice.
If the OP is anywhere near Tucson, he's more than welcome to stop by and have a cup or two and discuss options.
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Old April 28, 2014, 01:37 PM   #53
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^^^ That is what I am thinking at this point.
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Old April 28, 2014, 01:59 PM   #54
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308 hands down. Easy to find ammo and cheapest. Of the calibers you mentioned all will do the trick, but 308 will do it the cheapest.
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Old April 28, 2014, 03:52 PM   #55
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I think if I was strictly shooting targets I would buy the .308. To be honest I may very well buy a .308 this summer for just target shooting. It will allow me to shoot often and increase my shooting ability. I didn't get drawn for elk this year so I don't need a .300 WM right now, but I think I may very well buy one soon.

To Paul above, I go to school in Flagstaff, AZ and live in Phoenix, AZ during the summer.
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Old April 28, 2014, 10:10 PM   #56
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I feel like a shot like this is not unusual for me in Arizona: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18

That is why I want something that would be good for longer ranges.

Last edited by CC268; April 28, 2014 at 11:07 PM.
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Old April 29, 2014, 11:39 AM   #57
natman
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Quote:
I would really like something that is versatile (like I said good for big game and some target shooting). I have shot everything from a .270 to a 7mm MAG, to a 300 Ultra Mag. I am open to suggestions but PLEASE NO ODD CALIBERS that are hard to find. Here are a list of calibers that come to mind that may be good?

308
30-06
300 Win Mag
300 Win Short Mag
7MM Mag
.270
Every one of the cartridges mentioned would be a good choice for the uses mentioned. The differences between them are slight and small variations in requirements could change the outcome.

However, for versatility, you can't beat the 30-06. Second choice, and first if you plan on making a short, light carbine would be the 308.

The 270 is not as far away from the 243 as the 30-06 and has few target bullets compared to 30 caliber. The 30-06 is a better choice for target shooting than any of the magnums.
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Old April 29, 2014, 11:59 AM   #58
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I'm no expert and I don't hunt. But for myself I chose .30-06 Sprg for it's versatility and ability to do anything I'll ever need it to do in my area. I do also have a .223 Rem and a very good .22 caliber pellet rifle. I see no need for anything else "here".

I suppose if I already had a .243 then I'd opt for a .300 Win Mag because it's the biggest step up. Or maybe a 7mm Rem Mag. I'm thinking any of the others will just be an incremental change but I could be wrong, of course.

I'm sure you already know this but...

.243 is a necked-down .308
.270 is a necked-down .30-06
EDIT: 7mm Rem Mag (I think) is a necked down .375 H&H Mag

Last edited by Mike1234; April 29, 2014 at 12:12 PM.
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Old April 29, 2014, 12:39 PM   #59
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As a resident elk hunter in Flagstaff AZ (love this town), I'd say go ahead and get a 300 Mag or WSM if you are leaning towards one anyway. A 308 or 30-06 will do the job, but if you are already thinking about shooting elk at 500 yards you might as well have the extra oompf.

I've killed most of my elk with a 30-06 inside 300 yards (most under 200 yards). I decided to build a rifle awhile back for long range fun, deer and occaisionally elk. I had settled on a 270 or 7mm magnum at one point thinking it'd be mostly a deer rifle but I knew the that if I ever lined up a nice bull at 500 yards, I'd want something bigger. So I opted for a 300 WSM.

A 308 or '06 will certainly do the job for at least awhile and you can decide whether or not to go bigger from there. In my opinion, mostly due to the terrain differences I hunt deer and elk in, I think elk are easier to get closer shots on than deer. I hunt elk in pines or pinon/junipers which provide better cover for pulling sneaks as opposed to deer who are often in more open country full of smaller trees and bushes.
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Old April 29, 2014, 12:43 PM   #60
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^^^ Yea I really think I am going to go with the 300 WM. That seems to be the general consensus on another forum that I posted on as well. I agree that elk are usually closer shots, but some of those shots on deer can be LONG. I think it is better to be safe than sorry and just go with the 300 WM. I would consider the 300 WSM but it is harder to find ammo. The 300 WM can be found pretty much anywhere.
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Old April 29, 2014, 12:45 PM   #61
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I think it's cheaper than WSM ammo too.
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Old April 29, 2014, 12:47 PM   #62
CC268
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Yea 300 WM can be found for not much more than my .243 ammo. Of course once I get reloading equipment it won't be as big of a deal, but it may be a while before I have the cash for reloading equipment.
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Old April 30, 2014, 09:11 PM   #63
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Well, I read through the thread, and there is lots of good information here. My go to hunting rifle is a Remington Model 7 in .308. The short cartridge length allows for a compact rifle that is great for woods and humping hills and that still puts a 150 grain .30 caliber bullet on target easily out to 350.

If you reload, a .30-06 is a bit more versatile on the up side. That might be the way to go if you want to shoot heavier bullets or range out a bit further. But in target guns, either the .308 or .30-06 can keep a bullet supersonic out beyond 1,000.

I had a .300WM for a while, and I found the recoil more than I cared for. So in your situation, I'd probably opt for a .30-06. It would be more than adequate most of the time. And those few times it isn't? Get closer.
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Old April 30, 2014, 09:49 PM   #64
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Didn't see anywhere that the OP has shot a 300 Winnie Mag. I would recommend that he shoot one of these a few times at a range, and see how he feels about it afterward. I have seen quite a few shooters at the range shooting 300 WinMags and similar rounds. Many can't shoot a group less than 6 inches at a 100 yards. Recoil is a subjective thing, and some people (including me) won't do well with a hard recoiling rifle. And the muzzle blast is damned annoying too. Just a fact of life.

And for those "recoil junkies"---good on ya. Not trying to run anyone down. It would just be a downer to invest in a big game rifle and not do well with it.
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Old May 1, 2014, 01:41 AM   #65
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270 Winchester vs 300 magnum

270 Winchester trajectory is similar to a 300 Magnum. Take a 24" barreled 270 Winchester, 150 grain Nosler Partition or Sierra Game-King bullets hand-loaded to 3,000 fps, (yes, there are several powders that will safely do it.), and you will have a rifle that shoots like a 300 magnum, recoils like a 30-'06 and will deliver perhaps in excess of 1,400 ft.-lbs energy at 500 yards. The 270 is at its best with 150 grain bullets. But if you must have more recoil, by all means, get a 300.
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Old May 1, 2014, 09:45 AM   #66
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The classics are classics for a reason:
30-06
308
270 Win.

I put them in that order b/c you already have a .243. If you didn't, I'd probably choose the 270 first, then 30-06, then 308.

Full disclosure: I have a 30-06.
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Old May 1, 2014, 07:46 PM   #67
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Can't go wrong with any of the three - .270, .30-06, or 300 Win Mag.

I have a .308 and .300 Win Mag (as well as a .44 Ruger Carbine) and I'd hunt with either for anything up to Elk/Moose.

.270 and .30-06 will be easy to find and there are a world of loads out there for them. The .300 Win Mag is overkill on deer to many people, but I use 150 grain loads for deer when using the 300.

Lots of good choices, just boils down to your needs (distance, skill, reloading capability, etc.).
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Old May 1, 2014, 07:48 PM   #68
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Quote:
270 Winchester trajectory is similar to a 300 Magnum. Take a 24" barreled 270 Winchester, 150 grain Nosler Partition or Sierra Game-King bullets hand-loaded to 3,000 fps, (yes, there are several powders that will safely do it.), and you will have a rifle that shoots like a 300 magnum, recoils like a 30-'06 and will deliver perhaps in excess of 1,400 ft.-lbs energy at 500 yards. The 270 is at its best with 150 grain bullets. But if you must have more recoil, by all means, get a 300.
I don't know of a load that will send a .270 150gr to 3420 fps. 74 grains of IMR 4350 with a 150gr Ballistic Silvertip or Accubond will do so in a 300 Win Mag with a 24" barrel. Recoil with 150 gr loads is actually very manageable.

.270 is a proven, fantastic round. But a .300 Win Mag it is not.
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Old May 1, 2014, 08:47 PM   #69
Colorado Redneck
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150 gr. bullet at 3400 fps--Recoil

Recoil
Input Data
Charge Weight: 74.0 gr Muzzle Velocity: 3400.0 ft/s
Firearm Weight: 9.0 lb Bullet Weight: 150.0 gr
Output Data
Recoil Velocity: 13.6 ft/s Recoil Energy: 25.9 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 3.8 lb•s

This calculator from JBM Ballistics.
Firearm wt = 9.0 lbs (heavy rifle by most standards)

The round quoted by Orion6 would shoot really flat and hit really hard. Great long range elk, moose, or whatever round. Just need to be able to withstand that kind of recoil to shoot well. As stated, recoil is manageable (by most--just not me) so if prepared a shooter can certainly field this weapon and hunt.
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Old May 2, 2014, 01:42 AM   #70
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Quote:
I don't know of a load that will send a .270 150gr to 3420 fps. 74 grains of IMR 4350 with a 150gr Ballistic Silvertip or Accubond will do so in a 300 Win Mag with a 24" barrel. Recoil with 150 gr loads is actually very manageable.

.270 is a proven, fantastic round. But a .300 Win Mag it is not.
CC268 doesn't reload, and doesn't plan to do so any time soon. So, citing best-case-scenario handloads isn't very helpful. (Especially since reloaders know very well that 99% of rifles will never achieve the velocities published in reloading manuals - such as the Nosler data you cited.)
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Old May 2, 2014, 12:16 PM   #71
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Quote:
I don't know of a load that will send a .270 150gr to 3420 fps. 74 grains of IMR 4350 with a 150gr Ballistic Silvertip or Accubond will do so in a 300 Win Mag with a 24" barrel. Recoil with 150 gr loads is actually very manageable.

.270 is a proven, fantastic round. But a .300 Win Mag it is not.
Refer to post #45. It's close enough. I doubt an animal could tell the difference.

No you can't shoot a 150 grain out of a .270 win at 3400fps. But the thing is, a 150 grain in a .270 is about the equivalent to a 181 grain bullet in .30 cal
The .277 bullet of equal weight will have a superior SD and BC to the .308 in the same weight.


A 120 grain .277 cal bullet has a similar SD to a 150 grain .308 bullet. You could probably get a 120 grain bullet close to 3400fps with a hot load in .270 Winchester.

Again, post #45 shows that a 130 grain super performance load will have a similar 500 yard trajectory to the .300 win mag with a 150 grain bullet, and the 130 still has a sectional density advantage (and likely BC advantage) compared to the .308 bullet.
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Old May 2, 2014, 12:24 PM   #72
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My 300win is a Winchester Classic (modern pre-64 style) stainless with the BOSS system on it. The BOSS reduces felt recoil by enough that I can't notice any difference from shooting a .308.
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Old May 2, 2014, 01:51 PM   #73
darkgael
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calibers

Quote:
308
30-06
300 Win Mag
300 Win Short Mag
7MM Mag
.270
Big Game Rifle Caliber???
Four of those listed are the same caliber.

Pete
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Old May 2, 2014, 02:08 PM   #74
Mike1234
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He meant big game "cartridge"... we all understood what he meant.
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Old May 2, 2014, 07:31 PM   #75
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yep

Quote:
He meant big game "cartridge"... we all understood what he meant.
Yep. I know. I understood what he meant also.
Cartridge..nice word..... should get used more.
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