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Old April 10, 2014, 03:11 PM   #1
Machineguntony
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Silencer? That's a silencer?!

So last night, I took my silencers/suppressors to my friend's house in the countryside.

We were talking about silencers, and talking about how it would be good for home defense because it would make the gun much easier to shoot in a self defense situation, mainly because the noise would be a lot less. As know-it-alls, we concluded that a big problem with a gun in a home defense situation would be the deafening blast, as a gun blast in the confined quarters of a home would be debilitating to the homeowner/defensive shooter.

As know-it-alls, we stated that a suppressed handgun would be the ultimate home defense weapon. We actually have no first hand experience in home defense situations, btw.

So my friend had the bright idea of shooting one of my guns into a thick stack of phone books in a bedroom, as we were in the countryside. I twisted on the Mystic suppressor to my HK45CT, loaded up a round, and fired.

We both nearly went deaf from the blast, ears ringing.

My friend goes, "That's a silencer?! What the FFFF?"

It sounded like any other gunblast. What silencer?! LOL. These things definitely aren't like in the movies.

*As clarification, we weren't wearing hearing protection. Normally, I religiously wear hearing protection to protect my hearing.
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Old April 10, 2014, 03:15 PM   #2
jimbob86
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If it sounded like any other 45ACP pistol, you wasted quite a bit of money.

They don't make the gun silent- just not as earsplitting.
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Old April 10, 2014, 03:20 PM   #3
Brian Pfleuger
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You'd be much better off with subsonic ammo, as a not-insignificant portion of the noise comes from the bullet breaking the sound barrier.

Also, your silencer is probably rated for 30-40dB reduction. While that is certainly a significant amount, you're still going to be left in the 120-130dB area, plenty enough to cause pain and ringing.

Even as you had it, still much better than no silencer at all.
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Old April 10, 2014, 03:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
You'd be much better off with subsonic ammo, as a not-insignificant portion of the noise comes from the bullet breaking the sound barrier.
Pretty simple for .45ACP- most 230gr target ammo is loaded to about 800-850 f/sec .... well below the sound barrier (around 1100-1150 f/sec depending upon air temp, humidity and altitude, IIRC).


Quote:
Also, your silencer is probably rated for 30-40dB reduction. While that is certainly a significant amount, you're still going to be left in the 120-130dB area, plenty enough to cause pain and ringing.
Most of my earmuffs are rated around 30 dB reduction...... just for reference.

dB is not a linear scale- 30dB is a lot.
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Old April 10, 2014, 03:44 PM   #5
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Suppressed guns are still pretty loud inside, unless you're shooting subsonic .22 LR. Though I'd bet if you had taken the suppressor off and shot a second round, you'd notice a huge difference.
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Old April 10, 2014, 03:52 PM   #6
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Ok, that story probably stated with the words "hold my beer"

Just kidding....

Ive never fired a suppressed handgun indoors but have lots of experience with suppressed M4's inside ---- frigging LOUD without hearing protection.

Better then without but still loud
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Old April 10, 2014, 05:24 PM   #7
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbob86 View Post
Pretty simple for .45ACP- most 230gr target ammo is loaded to about 800-850 f/sec .... well below the sound barrier (around 1100-1150 f/sec depending upon air temp, humidity and altitude, IIRC).









Most of my earmuffs are rated around 30 dB reduction...... just for reference.



dB is not a linear scale- 30dB is a lot.

Subsonic is easy but not necessarily assumed.

30dB is a lot but the reduction doesn't really matter, what's left is what matters. Especially in a enclosed space, 120dB is loud. That's just about the threshold of pain.

Yeah, many thicker muffs and foam plugs are rated at 29dB, sometimes slightly higher. It gets complicated and that number is really an average across all frequencies.

The truth, though, is that the remaining noise is still too much and that's why I always recommend double protection (foam plugs and good muffs). It doesn't strictly add, 30 muffs plus 30 plugs is not 60dB, but it's a lot better than either one alone.
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Old April 10, 2014, 06:36 PM   #8
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Back in the 1970s-the statute of limitations has LONG expired-a college buddy and I made some "silencers" using one of "those" books. On a 45 M1911 most were VERY effective if clumsy and awkward. Yes, a 1 liter bottle filled with plastic peanuts WILL work, especially when you have it clamped securely to the
barrel. So that unit...sounds like some sort of adjustment is in order.
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Old April 10, 2014, 06:47 PM   #9
cslinger
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I have to go with the that sounds odd crew. I have shot a fair amount of suppressed stuff and although nothing like the movie pffft sound they are generally very quiet in relation to a normal blast. Hell I have fired a suppresses .308 bolt gun with subsonic loaded stuff that was damn near silent except for the thuds and clangs of the impacts.

All good quality higher end stuff and all completely legally papered etc. nothing home made or illegal.
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Old April 10, 2014, 07:07 PM   #10
Bartholomew Roberts
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There are a couple of different sources of noise for a suppressed firearm:

1. Muzzle report: this is the only noise a suppressor effects (unless it is one of those older types that bleeds off gas to slow the projectile). As noted, a suppressor may lower the report by 20-30db. The industry considers the "hearing safe" level for very short term noise to be under 140db. Most suppressors tend to be in the 130db range. For comparison, a jackhammer running 15m away is between 90-100db.

2. Flight noise - the bullet has its own tiny supersonic shock wave that also causes noise (unless it is subsonic)

3. Action noise - the firearm action moving can be a more noticeable source of noise with the report suppressed

4. Target noise - a 230gr slug at 900fps can make a hell of a noise in its own right when it hits something. Shooting rifles, I can hear my rounds hit the berm from 100yds away. A stack of phone books? I bet that was loud.

Even though my own suppressors are all "hearing safe" I still use ear plugs with them. You also have to consider the environment - in an enclosed space, all that sound is reflected back at you. I can remember thinking how loud an MP5SD was the first time I shot one on an enclosed concrete indoor range.
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Old April 11, 2014, 09:25 AM   #11
Machineguntony
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I think the best way to describe it is that it still sounds like a gun, but the sound is that of a smaller cartridge. The 45 sounded like a low power 9mm. I see guys shooting silencers without ear protection, which is not something I would ever do again, especially in confined quarters.

And yes, we were enjoying a responsible drink or two, that's how we came to know everything.
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Old April 11, 2014, 12:00 PM   #12
BigBoyToyz
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The Liberty Mystic is not rated for 45acp and may void the warranty.
At best with subsonic loads of course, buy an SWR Octane 45, or Osprey 45.
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Old April 11, 2014, 12:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Subsonic is easy but not necessarily assumed.
????

If you are going to shoot a pistol with a suppressor, what advantage would using supersonic ammo be? That'd be like putting a sail on a speedboat .....

"Of what value is redoubling your efforts, after you have lost sight of your goal?"
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Old April 11, 2014, 12:23 PM   #14
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Two things..

First. MGTony, from what i read. The Mystic is not a 45 cal suspressor. Its a 9mm. So how did you shoot a 45 thru it. Im not thinking pressure, im thinking about bore size

Second, Jimbob86, i plan on shooting a bunch of supersonic stuff thru my SDN-6 when it gets here. 308, 300blk

The fact the ammo is supersonic does not make a silencer useless... Just less quiet then subsonic stuff. To be sure subsonic is much QUIETER thru a can. No bullet crack, less pressure to muffle.
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Old April 11, 2014, 12:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite
First. MGTony, from what i read. The Mystic is not a 45 cal suspressor. Its a 9mm. So how did you shoot a 45 thru it. Im not thinking pressure, im thinking about bore size
Ha, I totally missed that part. Yeah, I guess shooting a .45 through a 9mm can might explain the extra noise! But I'm guessing that's not what really happened; I'd think he would have noticed that he destroyed his can, and I also doubt that Liberty makes .578x28 or 16x1 pistons for the Mystic, considering those are .45 thread patterns.
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Old April 11, 2014, 12:46 PM   #16
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Who needs a piston???

Aint you ever heard of "Duck" tape? Thats the kind you use on Ducks not ducts
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Old April 11, 2014, 12:49 PM   #17
jimbob86
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Quote:
Second, Jimbob86, i plan on shooting a bunch of supersonic stuff thru my SDN-6 when it gets here. 308, 300blk
Rifle rounds are a whole different cat. The performance gained by going WAY past the sound barrier, in terms of trajectory and energy on target is significant.

The extra 100-200 f/sec of a supersonic pistol round (in 9mm, 45ACP, etc) gives so little added performance that the added noise is not worth it.

If you are going for quiet, subsonic is the way to go. If you want performance and reducing noise is a secondary consisderation, use a rife cartridge and a suppressor.
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Old April 11, 2014, 01:07 PM   #18
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Agreed on rifle rounds thru a can

Im loading both supers and subs in both 308 & 300

For pistols i agree sub is the best way to go. But its hard to find subsonic 9mm as plinker/tgt ammo. Most all the bulk package stuff is 115-124. All of whice is supersonic. If thats all there is thats what most folks will shoot

Supers with a can is still WAY quieter then without
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Old April 11, 2014, 01:09 PM   #19
Machineguntony
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Its an Octane. Not a mystic. Both are liberty, and I have both.

I shot the .45

These things are new to me, so I don't get the name straight
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Old April 11, 2014, 01:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
But its hard to find subsonic 9mm as plinker/tgt ammo.
If you roll your own, you can make whatever you like.
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Old April 11, 2014, 01:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
It sounded like any other gunblast. What silencer?! LOL. These things definitely aren't like in the movies.
"First round pop"?
Did you try a second round?
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Old April 11, 2014, 01:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machineguntony
Its an Octane. Not a mystic. Both are liberty, and I have both.

I shot the .45

These things are new to me, so I don't get the name straight
Ha, I'm really glad you didn't shoot .45 out of your Liberty Mystic. That would have been bad! Though I figured you just made a mistake in your first post; I can't imagine you could have done that without noticing.

The Octane is actually made by Silencerco/SWR. I have an Octane 9 and I love it.
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Old April 11, 2014, 01:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenMauser
"First round pop"?
Did you try a second round?
The Octane doesn't have much first-round-pop at all.
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Old April 11, 2014, 02:36 PM   #24
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbob86
????

If you are going to shoot a pistol with a suppressor, what advantage would using supersonic ammo be? That'd be like putting a sail on a speedboat .....

"Of what value is redoubling your efforts, after you have lost sight of your goal?"
Geez, Jim, just feel like arguing or what?

The OP didn't SAY the ammo was subsonic. BOTH types of ammo exist and the OP said it was much louder than expected.

Therefore! It makes sense to explain that supersonic ammo will be louder than subsonic ammo, because both exist and both are possibilities!

It goes without saying (even though I DID say it) that subsonic ammo is going to be quieter but people do, quite routinely in fact, shoot supersonic ammo with a silencer.

Sometimes, being a contrarian just for the sake of being a contrarian ceases to be entertaining.
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Old April 11, 2014, 03:22 PM   #25
Machineguntony
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I will be the first to admit that I am not an expert on the data side of firearms. Case in point: I thought, prior to what you guys said in this thread, that all .45 ACP ammo was subsonic due to the large bullet size and relatively small charge (as a comparison, some 40SW rounds have a similar charge to a 45 ACP charge).

I do not know if the round I shot was subsonic. I reload all my own ammo. But the recipe was this: 185 grain Berry's plated bullet. 7.7 Grains of Longshot. OAL of 1.13. Large pistol primer. Anyone know if this was a subsonic round?
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