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Old April 7, 2014, 10:46 AM   #1
Magnum Wheel Man
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barrel with offset bore ???

MRS had the western channel on TV this weekend, & I came in from outside working for a break, the Virginian was on, & it was a color version, & the guest Actress had the the most beautiful aqua blue eyes... was looking for a picture of her today, trying to figure out who she was... in my search I ran across this picture...

I think it was from the Virginian... wondered what the gun was... anyone see enough to guess ???

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Old April 7, 2014, 10:54 AM   #2
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Thats gotta be some kind of suppressor
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Old April 7, 2014, 11:05 AM   #3
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That's a suppresor mounted on what looks like a Colt or Smith revolver.
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Old April 7, 2014, 11:08 AM   #4
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It's from a 1964 movie called "The Killers". Lee Marvin with a suppressor on a S&W 27.

link to pics
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Killers,_The_(1964)

I wonder how quiet it would be in reality?

Last edited by PSP; April 7, 2014 at 11:15 AM.
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Old April 7, 2014, 11:24 AM   #5
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It's a non-functional, (fantasy) suppressor on a revolver that wouldn't work even if it were a real suppressor. It's offset because it was cheaper to make the holes in the cap there than to find a way to raise the sights on the revolver.
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Old April 7, 2014, 11:36 AM   #6
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Cause EVERYBODY knows only hired killers have suppressors
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Old April 7, 2014, 11:53 AM   #7
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Obviously not from the Virginian, with that wristwatch.
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Old April 7, 2014, 01:10 PM   #8
Magnum Wheel Man
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thanks for the replies guys... ya... picture just came up with a group... couldn't see the gun well enough in the picture, & no idea where it came from...

thanks for the link, but nothing there...
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Old April 7, 2014, 01:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thPoint
It's a non-functional, (fantasy) suppressor on a revolver that wouldn't work even if it were a real suppressor. It's offset because it was cheaper to make the holes in the cap there than to find a way to raise the sights on the revolver.
The original Maxim Silencer had an offset bore like that:





Here's what it looked like from the business end, which is pretty similar to the movie prop silencer:




As for suppressing a revolver, it might make a little bit of a difference in the overall sound, but probably not much; too much gas escapes from the cylinder/barrel gap. In addition, traditional silencer designs produce back-pressure, so I would think it might actually sound louder to the shooter because of the back-pressure pushing more gas back through the cylinder/barrel gap.

Most of the successful silenced revolver designs I've seen use a mechanism that closes the cylinder/barrel gap in some way, like the Nagant revolver. But you get a very heavy DA trigger pull as a result. I've also seen pictures of silenced revolvers with shrouds over the gap, but I don't know how well they worked.
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Old April 7, 2014, 02:54 PM   #10
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Maybe it was modified with a gas seal system like on the 1895 Nagant revolver.
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Old April 8, 2014, 05:24 PM   #11
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Obviously Lee Marvin . . . and . . . ahhhh . . . I don't think wrist watches were worn in westerns that took place in the time of the Virginian.
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Old April 9, 2014, 08:47 PM   #12
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Most Maxim silencers were made that way, including the ones purchased by the U.S. Army for the Model 1903 rifle.

It seems that every time someone mentions revolvers and suppressors in the same sentence, someone has to bring up the Russian Nagant revolver. But has anyone actually seen, or seen an actual picture of, a Nagant being used with a suppressor? The only pictures I have seen of Russian suppressors have shown them used with auto pistols.

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Old April 9, 2014, 09:03 PM   #13
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Youtube is your friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvF4yurWSc0
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Old April 9, 2014, 09:03 PM   #14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvF4yurWSc0

nagant? I'm not sure if this is what u meant?
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Old April 9, 2014, 09:19 PM   #15
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Actually the CIA ordered a group of Dan Wessons from the Monson plant that were modified to take supressors, they were 357's and were to be used with jacketed bullets only, the cylinder gap was set at .0015" and the cylinders were trued to .0002". There was one on display at a spec ops weapons display that I was lucky enough to attend when active duty back in the 70's.
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Old April 9, 2014, 09:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James K
It seems that every time someone mentions revolvers and suppressors in the same sentence, someone has to bring up the Russian Nagant revolver.
Ha, I'm usually guilty of that. But to be fair, I started bringing it up because whenever I would point out how a suppressor won't really work on a revolver, someone else would always bring up the Nagant revolver. So now I just do it pre-emptively .

Quote:
Originally Posted by James K
But has anyone actually seen, or seen an actual picture of, a Nagant being used with a suppressor?
I saw a video on YouTube of someone shooting one with a modern silencer (I think it was an Octane 9). I didn't watch the video that both AK103K and Venom1956 linked, but I'm assuming it's the same one.
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Old April 9, 2014, 09:25 PM   #17
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There are actually a bunch of them on there, the one I posted was on the top.
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Old April 11, 2014, 12:25 AM   #18
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Some of the conversion kits for the Glocks have an offset bore. The 40 to 9mm I think. In this case the offset is side to side and not top to bottom.
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Old April 13, 2014, 02:34 AM   #19
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As for suppressing a revolver, it might make a little bit of a difference in the overall sound, but probably not much; too much gas escapes from the cylinder/barrel gap.
Everyone always says this. Prove it.

If you think the cylinder gap is big, you should see the monster hole that goes all the way through the silencer and out the far end. Clearly, this isn't close to a sealed system.

This kind of thing gets repeated so often that it has become excepted as true, even though the cylinder gap is less area than the difference between a .32 and .380.

Silencers are don't trap the gas, they just muffle a percentage of it. If cylinder gaps leaked so badly, revolvers would be terribly inefficient.

The best suppressed guns use tiny, low pressure cartridges, because that big hole at the end of the can is what really matters.
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Old April 13, 2014, 02:47 AM   #20
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Old April 13, 2014, 03:01 AM   #21
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Old April 13, 2014, 03:51 AM   #22
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Silencers are don't trap the gas, they just muffle a percentage of it.
Actually, they dont muffle the gas, they simply delay its escape just long enough for it to cool. Its the hot gas, and bullets moving past the speed of sound that make the noise.

Quote:
The best suppressed guns use tiny, low pressure cartridges, because that big hole at the end of the can is what really matters.
I have a suppressor for my AR's, that eliminates 97% of the muzzle blast, and lowers the report to the point I can fire it in my carport, without hearing protection. If I shoot a .22 from a rifle there with out ear plugs, I cant hear for days.

The .223 bullet does leave the gun past the speed of sound, and does make its own noise as it goes downrange.

When I shoot a subsonic 9mm in the same spot from one of my Glocks with a suppressor mounted, it sounds like someone slammed a car door. The only other noise, is the bullet hitting the target, and the clatter of the empty brass on the concrete floor.


If what you were saying is true, youd be seeing suppressors mounted on revolvers, like anything else. Have a look around YouTube (or anywhere else for that matter), and see how many you come up with, that are mounted and fired on anything but a Nagant.
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Old April 13, 2014, 05:22 AM   #23
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As stated earlier in this thread, government agencies did have revolvers with silencers on them. If you would like to find one of them and put a video of how loud they are on youtube, that would be great.

In the meantime, suppressor sales are to military units (that haven't used revolvers in a century) and the tacticalrific civilians who emulate them. The revolver crowd doesn't seem like they feel the need for suppressors, weapon lights, camouflage paint or flash hiders. So you're going to have a hard time finding a revolver guy who is going to mess up one of his guns to do something which every internet/gunshop/video gamer believes isn't going to work.

I am certainly not saying that the cylinder gap isn't a factor, but no one has ever stated with any authority how much additional noise a cylinder gap produces.

We know that revolvers have been suppressed in the past, so it couldn't have been that much worse than a high pressure .38 Super or 9mm, or a large bore .45. And cylinder gaps account for less than 50 fps of lost energy, and that energy is what makes the noise.

I just think it is ridiculous to keep repeating something that is entirely unproven, especially when it used to be done.
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Old April 13, 2014, 07:30 AM   #24
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Quote:
If you would like to find one of them and put a video of how loud they are on youtube, that would be great.
Youre the one telling us it works, so its up to you to prove it. Dont make us do your homework for you.


The only suppressed revolvers used that I ever remember ever seeing, were those used in Vietnam, and they used self contained cartridges to accomplish it, no suppressor at all.

Dont know about the CIA, I can only find fleeting mention of Dan Wessons and maybe some 625's being used by the Germans, and all of them addressed the "gap" by either screwing the barrel back to the cylinder, with the DW's, or using ammo with some sort of sleeve that sealed the gap. Nothing here would be considered common.

Can it be done? Sure, anything "can" be done if you work at it, and throw enough money at it.

If youre so sure it entirely unproven, it seems it up to you to prove it, if you want to keep telling us it works to the point of being efficent. So far, the only ones Ive seen that do, that actually work like an unsuppressed revolver, are the Nagant, and those few "Tunnel Rat" guns that didnt use one at all.
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Old April 13, 2014, 07:49 AM   #25
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If suppressing stock revolvers worked, why do any attempts to suppress them (like the DW's mentioned above) talk about custom barrel gaps, limiting ammo to jacketed stuff and all that? Do we assume that those folks didn't at least TRY to suppress a standard revolver before making all those expensive and limiting changes?


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