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Old April 4, 2014, 11:18 AM   #26
green_MTman
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I am glad you got the point.yes anything you post online about reloading or what a rifle can do or not do without knowing who is reading it,its always best to be conservative being that you dont know who is reading it.

shooting a deer nevermind elk at 400 with a .308 or 7mm-08 takes prime shot placement.this would be a very advanced shooter.maybe western elk are not as tough as New England moose too i have never hunted elk but ive always been told they are disperportionatley tough in relation to there size.i have eaten elk meat and its the best red meat i ever tried.

I was trying to be conservative.

the speed limit is posted for all drivers but dont you always see the state police doing 90 in the left lane even if there not responding to an emergency,which in new england is really speeding.they drive cars designed to drive at those speeds and they learn driving skills at police academy
i once knew a guy who grew up in a small town in western massachusetts and was hired by the state police.they sent him to barracks in boston.
but he did not want to live in urban eastern,mass,so he commuted every day 90 miles from his tiny town to boston.at speeds of 100mph

Last edited by green_MTman; April 4, 2014 at 11:24 AM.
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Old April 4, 2014, 11:30 AM   #27
tahunua001
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again I think you are confusing PSI with FTlbs. as I calculated for you, a 750gr bullet fired from a 50 BMG is only capable of 78 PSI which is 1/25th of 2000PSI. elk just aren't that tough. even if you got PSI and FTlbs confused, there are very few sporting cartridges out there that have been in production more than 30 years that are capable of that kind of energy, meaning that every person in the last 200 years that's killed an elk was using a marginal or underpowered round. this is not the case. 1000 is all I could ever see needing. I've been told that deer require at least 500 FTlbs but I've taken deer with about a 3rd of that.
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Old April 4, 2014, 11:49 AM   #28
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If 1000ft/lbs is the minimum you could technically use the Grendel out to 440 yards and still have 12ft-lbs over the minimum impact energy.
At 440 yards you have about 1880fps left and 1012ft-lbs energy. That should be enough 'Umph' to bring down the elk with proper shot placement.

I was under the impression that the generally accepted minimum was 1000ft-lbs for deer and 1500ft/lbs for elk. Even If we were to use the 1500ft-lb figure, you'd still have a reasonable 150 yard elk gun with the Grendel and a good bullet.
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Old April 4, 2014, 11:56 AM   #29
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I would load up the Barnes 120 gr. TSX to as hot as will be safe and shoot well, keep the range within reason, and assuming you do your part I would think it would do its part.
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Old April 4, 2014, 12:10 PM   #30
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i see people quoting me but i dont see a quote symbol i can click on.i dont know how to quote.

energy as far as i know gun shooting is: foot pounds per square inch of kenetic energy.psi is just easier to write.its not one system or the other but there the same equation.to save typing some people say ft/lbs others say psi

if my last posts where read i admitted my specs were cautious.

if your in the field maybe your 1000 to 1500 energy may be best

if your buying a new rifle and working up handloads for it,planning with the 2000 energy formula is a better idea.
if the only rifle you have is a 6.5 grendal then make that work for you.if i was buying an elk rifle i would be torn between a 30-378 wby using a 200gr or a 7mm RUM using a 175gr A frame.

its like black bear hunting.any deer rifle from a 30-30 up works fine for a heart shot at 50 yards near a cornfield or berry bushes.

a lot of people say bring a 30-06 or better to hunt bear in an apple orchard because the rotten apples get the bears drunk and they get crazy.
it never hurts to plan ahead
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Old April 4, 2014, 12:19 PM   #31
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another thing is that i think my calculations are reasonable.some people say you need a .338 mag to even kill an elk.with better bullets those attitudes are fading away but many people still believe that.

i will give you 3 mock quotes from gun mag writers

Craig Boddington; you need at least a 600 nitro to kill a prairie dog

Rick Jameson; if you cant kill an elephant with a 25-06 you need to practice your shooting

Layne Simpson ; never hunt with a gun i did not invent
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Old April 4, 2014, 07:05 PM   #32
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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As far as I know most store bought bullets made have a manufactures suggested optimum high & low velocity range. Nosler E tip bullets included.
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Old April 4, 2014, 07:47 PM   #33
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I would be scared to even try to guess how many Elk have been killed with a .30-30 between 100 and 150 yards. If you do the math, at what yardage does a .300 Win mag become a .30-30 at 150 yards? You do not need the monster cannons to harvest Elk. Having said that, I hunt them with 7 RUM. I shot one at 715 to 720 and it dropped like a ton of bricks fell on it.
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Old April 4, 2014, 08:09 PM   #34
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I'm liking this thread. A well placed bullet is a well placed bullet no matter which rifle fired it.

A 22 to the head does the job if the goal is meat.

I've also heard similar to green_MTman's

a lot of people say bring a 30-06 or better to hunt bear in an apple orchard because the rotten apples get the bears drunk and they get crazy.

My dad must have shot 10+ Black bears with a 32 winchester for years till he got a larger rifle. Then he still used the 32. If a person has no faith in their rifle or abilities then they lose.

Know your abilities and shot placement any you're golden.

I also have a 6.5 and it's deadly accurate.
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Old April 4, 2014, 08:38 PM   #35
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i think a 300 win mag becomes a 30-30 at about 350 to 400 yards
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Old April 4, 2014, 08:54 PM   #36
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well if we're talking about a an average 170gr, round nosed, lever action safe round at 150 yards, your average 180gr, 300 winmag load has about the same velocity with a little more energy at a little over 500 yards.
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Old April 4, 2014, 09:01 PM   #37
reynolds357
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Actually, the .300 Win mag has more energy at 800 yds than the .30-30 has at 150. The Win mag has more energy at 700 than the .30-30 has at 100. Thats comparing 150 grain round/flat nose in .30-30 to a 180 Gr boat tail spitzer in the .300 Win mag.
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Old April 6, 2014, 06:59 AM   #38
Jack O'Conner
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My wife hunts all big game including elk with her custom Browning in 6.5mm Swede. She has taken a bull and a cow with this rifle. Both took two shots through the chest organs. Deep penetration is predictable with the 140 grain Nosler Partition bullet.

Jack
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Old April 6, 2014, 07:23 AM   #39
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good load.at 6.5 swede velocities a swift A frame or barnes X like toughness is never needed.
i actually ordered 140 partitions,130 accubonds and 140gr sierra's game kings yesterday.not all three just which ever of the 3 the gun store could back order.

maybe to use if I can win a tag in the 2014 moose lottery
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Old April 7, 2014, 12:35 PM   #40
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well, I may be leaning more toward 130gr bullets. the 129 interbonds or 130 accubond long ranges may be a bit better. I'll probably experiment with all three just to see what I get the best accuracy with and expansion testing will definitely be in store for the ABs and ETs... wouldn't want them breaking up or failing to open properly.
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Old April 7, 2014, 10:34 PM   #41
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I'd shoot the Nosler Partition. I'd recommend a weight, but I don't use them in my 260 so I don't know what weights are available. If not the Partition, I'd go with the Accubond.

I can definitely tell you that a 100 grain bullet in my 260 does not drop a whitetail as well as a 120 grainer does, so if I was going for Elk I'd use something in the 120 to 140 range in the 6.5. I'd make the choice based on what velocity I could get, so if you can get the 140 stepping along pretty well I'd use that one.
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Old April 7, 2014, 11:36 PM   #42
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I'd personally buy Barnes if going the monolithic route, seems like they are the most proven. But the E-tip or GMX are probably about as good.

A bonded bullet like Accubond, Interbond, Scirocco or the Partition/A-Frame design would also be a better choice in my opinion over a cup and core or ballistic tip. I want penetration on elk.
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Old April 8, 2014, 12:33 AM   #43
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With my Tikka T3 6.5x55, I've used a 130gr. TSX bullet @ 2950 fps and a 140gr. Nosler Partition @ 2700 fps.

Both work well.
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Old April 8, 2014, 04:57 PM   #44
tahunua001
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Those are a little outside the realm of my 6.5s capabilities.
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Old April 8, 2014, 06:37 PM   #45
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Barnes would be my first choice. Put it in the right spot and you will be just fine. I like playing with the numbers (Sd, BC, FPS) as much as any handloader but just because the 6.5 120 doesn't measure up to a 140 VLD doesn't make it a hurled rock.
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Old April 8, 2014, 07:29 PM   #46
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My reference for killing power comes from P.O. Ackley Volume I, hand book for shooters and reloaders. On page 54 under killing power.
Acording to P.O. Ackley a Elk would require at least 1500 Ft. Lb. For a minimum striking energy. 2000 Ft.Lb. For adequate energy and for preferred energy 2500 Ft.Lb. Energy. This book gives a lot of information. Acording to this book that 6.5 120gr. Is minimum at the muzzle. Unless you are taking this Elk strictly for survival. Get more gun and check out P.O. Ackley's books.

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Old April 8, 2014, 07:38 PM   #47
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I wouldn't waste my time with a lot premium bullets, not at the speeds the 6.5 Grendel will operate. Premium bullets really don't offer any advantage over traditional bullets when the MV starts out below 3000 fps. Mono metal bullets like Barnes, E-Tips, and GMX may not expand as much as a hunter wants at slow speeds. The Swift A-Frame being a bonded partitioned bullet has a reputation for needing blazing speed to get it to open.

The actual impact speed of the bullet being used in the OP's rifle will more than likely be around 2300-2000 fps. It doesn't take a super tough bullet at those speeds to get the job done. I'd be perfectly happy running plain old Sierra GK/PH, Speer HC, Nosler BT, Winchester PP, Remington CL, and Hornady IL bullets they're going to work plain and simple.
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Old April 8, 2014, 07:44 PM   #48
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Quote:
My reference for killing power comes from P.O. Ackley Volume I, hand book for shooters and reloaders. On page 54 under killing power.
Acording to P.O. Ackley a Elk would require at least 1500 Ft. Lb. For a minimum striking energy. 2000 Ft.Lb. For adequate energy and for preferred energy 2500 Ft.Lb. Energy. This book gives a lot of information. check it out.
You got to remember one thing while it is a good read and has a ton of information in it P.O. Ackley isn't a definitive source of information. His books were a marketing tool for his cartridges. If you actually needed those energy figures to kill an elk, we wouldn't actually still be killing elk today with a muzzle loaders or pistols as they usually deliver far less than 1500 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle let alone point of impact.
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Old April 8, 2014, 10:14 PM   #49
green_MTman
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muzzleloader and shotguns using sabot slugs can have close to 2000lb of presure at close ranges.so could some hunting handguns.

the ranges that some people on this forum claim that certain guns can kill game,if those theories were true what hunter would need anything but a .243 or a 25-06.
there is a difference between maximum range for a fast clean kill and the range at which a rifle could be dangerous to animals.you could shoot a deer at 600 yards with a 30-06 if one did not mind tracking it for 6 miles through brush and woods
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Old April 8, 2014, 11:01 PM   #50
JD0x0
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Quote:
muzzleloader and shotguns using sabot slugs can have close to 2000lb of presure at close ranges.so could some hunting handguns.

the ranges that some people on this forum claim that certain guns can kill game,if those theories were true what hunter would need anything but a .243 or a 25-06.
there is a difference between maximum range for a fast clean kill and the range at which a rifle could be dangerous to animals.you could shoot a deer at 600 yards with a 30-06 if one did not mind tracking it for 6 miles through brush and woods
You could also shoot a deer at 600 yards, and watch it drop like a rock, if you're a good shot and use the right bullet.
There's records of .243 Winchester taking elk well past 600 yards... .243 win, being a cartridge that barely generates 2000ft/lbs at the muzzle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18

A 130 grain 6.5mm bullet with an impact velocity of 1800fps or more should be adequate to harvest most elk, with good placement. The 6.5 Grendel is capable.
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