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Old April 1, 2014, 09:31 PM   #1
ZVP
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The Percussion Cap shortage?

Has it let-up in your area?
In mine (central Calif) , it's as dry as ever!
I went shooting last week and just opened my last precious tin of Remington #11's! These will get used sparingly till I get down to about 5o and then I'll have to stop shooting BP till I can replenish my supply.
I'm NOT a Hoarder! I usually kept 4 tins and no more but now I am going to try and get a total of 5 tins just in case things don't open up like the situation with Rimfires. (I have a stash of 500 and quit shooting RF's!
This is treeible!
I know that there are shooters who commonly bought their caps by the 1000 but that is not hording.
BP shooters are no threat to the military, why don't they (whoever is causing this) just leave us alone?
BPDave
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Old April 2, 2014, 06:26 AM   #2
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My best guess is that we are doing it to ourselves. You gotta remember that there are over 300,000,000 people living in the USA and if every one of them suddenly decided they needed just one box, not a brick, but a box of .22 ammo, it would take CCI, who makes over a billion rounds a year, fifteen years to catch up with that sudden demand.
It doesn't take a conspiracy or a billionaire deciding to starve the ammo market, all it takes is for the everyone to suddenly feel they have to buy them while they can. Then the empty shelves in the stores reinforces the buy-them-while-you-can buying panic.

This happened to antifreeze in the '70s. I don't know what started it exactly, I think a rumor started that because of the oil embargo, they were going to stop making antifreeze because they needed the petroleum for fuel, but, for a few months, antifreeze was almost unbuyable. People were buying all they could even though they had cases of the stuff in the basement and the empty shelves reinforced the panic.

The last time I went into Cabelas, not only were there no caps, but the hook where they would have hung from had a $7.99 price tag on it. Talk about scalping!
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Old April 2, 2014, 08:59 AM   #3
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In the last month , Cabelas has gotten in a couple of orders of numbe r10 and number 11 remington caps. they lasted about a week before selling out. they sell them by the thousand- no smaller doses. The metal and primer chemistry is probably being allocated to the basic center fire round which are in much better supply now but at least they are still producing the caps periodically.
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Old April 2, 2014, 04:34 PM   #4
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I read your post last night, and curious, I stopped by my local hardware store today after work. Picked up a couple tins of CCI caps, some shotgun primers, and a lb of Pyrodex.

So no shortage here
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Old April 2, 2014, 06:50 PM   #5
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I have enough that I'm not looking to buy unless there is a deal I can't pass up. My usual place for caps had none a couple weeks ago. Another store had CCI 11 and 1075 caps. $10.99 a tin. But they had plenty of Pyrodex and 777 pellets.
Dicks always has 777 loose and pellets. They charge close to $50 for a pound of 777, that's why they always have it..........
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Old April 2, 2014, 06:50 PM   #6
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Glad some folks are OK!
It'll eventually pick up I hope! ZVP
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Old April 2, 2014, 09:00 PM   #7
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Geeze, Mr Redneck,
We have always had plenty of T7 & Pyro here ($21.95/lb for 777). Sporadic availibility of CCI/WW caps but no Remingtons.
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Old April 3, 2014, 02:40 PM   #8
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Hellgate,

I would say the average price for pyrodex and 777 is $28-$32 a pound. However, Dicks had it for $46. So it can be found cheaper. Just that if you really need some and $$$ isn't a concern, Dicks is the place to go.
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Old April 3, 2014, 03:09 PM   #9
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A local gunshop has a large stack of canisters of Remington #11, as well as boxes of large and small pistol and rifle primers. Perhaps I am just fortunate to live in the right location to find these items.
Ammo is around and plentiful, but pricey. 22 LR comes into the shops but are sold out by end of day.
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Old April 5, 2014, 03:06 AM   #10
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Why hurt the BPbshooters we're harmless noone commits crimes with BP guns
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Old April 5, 2014, 09:46 AM   #11
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Like I've said before, nobody is "doing this to us" on purpose. We're doing it to ourselves. With one third of a billion people in the US, and a sudden uptick in demand, it's not hard to empty out the stores. Then people who weren't planning to buy caps see the empty shelves and decide they better buy them while they can also and the problem gets even worse.
Then the conspiracy theories and stupid rumors start and the hoarding begins.

This too will pass and we will be awash with caps and .22 ammo someday. It's not like I see huge crowds of people shooting .22s and muzzleloaders at the range. It's not like CCI, Remington, RWS has quit making them, they are probably cranking them out as fast as they can.
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Old April 5, 2014, 11:31 AM   #12
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The thing that is astonishing to me is why hasn't production caught up with demand yet?

This hole thing started with the run up to the first election of President Obama in 2008. That is about 7 years ago. You would think over 7 years the production would have stepped up.

For at least two reasons. First, there is money out there wanting to be spent but it stays in the wallet when you go to Walmart and the shelves are bare.

Second, there is a real risk of doing permanent demand damage as people find they either can't shoot because of lack of ammo or it is too expensive if they do find it.

I went to Walmart yesterday to buy some batteries. Wandered past the ammo shelves. Surprisingly, there was actually 9mm, 40, and 45 available, as well as others. The shelves were only half empty this time.

But prices are unbelievable. $25 for a box of 50 .45 ACP. If you bought just a measly two boxes that would be literally burning up $50 for maybe a half an hour of entertainment. Other ammo is similarly priced. I guess there is no shortage of people buying it, though, since it is still hard to find and the range is always full when I go.

But you have to wonder how many people are not getting into shooting just because it is too expensive to indulge in. If it were not for the fact that I can reload a box of 50 .45 ACP for $4.50 I would not be shooting it. I can't go to the wife and tell her I'd like to blow $50 of the family budget on an afternoon by myself.

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Old April 5, 2014, 11:46 AM   #13
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Archery, anyone?
Cheap shooting, that's for sure.
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Old April 5, 2014, 12:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
The thing that is astonishing to me is why hasn't production caught up with demand yet?
Probably because the ammo makers are reluctant to invest millions in additional production capacity only to have the bubble break and then they are stuck with millions of dollars of unpaid for and unliquifiable production machinery that's sitting idle.
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Old April 5, 2014, 12:10 PM   #15
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Exactly.

The "scares" brought tons of additional consumers into the market. Eventually they'll go away.
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Old April 5, 2014, 01:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Archery, anyone?
Cheap shooting, that's for sure.
I bought the family archery equipment this last Christmas for partly that reason.

Quote:
Probably because the ammo makers are reluctant to invest millions in additional production capacity only to have the bubble break and then they are stuck with millions of dollars of unpaid for and unliquifiable production machinery that's sitting idle.
You would think after 6 years though that this would have been enough time to recoup an investment.

I guess we'll have to wait until the next presidential election. Another 8 years of a market like this ought to prompt investment.

Steve
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Old April 5, 2014, 07:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
You would think after 6 years though that this would have been enough time to recoup an investment.
There was a run on ammo and guns when Obama was elected but it quickly normalized and returned back to near normal. There was no real reason for the ammo makers to invest in more production capability at that time. Before the Sandy Hook event, shelves were full of ammo, even .22 rimfire.

It seems to me that there has been an explosion in the popularity of cap-and-ball revolvers and high end .22 rifles lately. This may be contributing to the shortage. The muzzle loading rifle market has mostly gone to 209 primer ignition lately. The people who shoot traditional patched roundball longrifles either flint or caplock have become a niche within a niche.
The manufacturers of caps, geared up to serve this niche within a niche, may have been caught off guard by the resurgance of cap and ball revolver popularity.
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Old April 6, 2014, 01:09 AM   #18
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Last week the local Sportsman's Warehouse had 10 tins of Remington #10 percussion caps and at a good price, $5.99 each. I'd been looking and these were the first I've seen in a couple months. I bought 4 since that was enough to hold me over for a while and let someone else get lucky.
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Old April 6, 2014, 12:14 PM   #19
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Found Remington #11 caps at Bass Pro today, bought 200 @ $7.99/100.
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Old April 6, 2014, 12:33 PM   #20
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Its gone beyond being a shortage. Its a conspiracy. There's shortages of everything gun related in this local area. Just a trickle of different odds and ends is seen off and on for not months, a year, but for years. Price increases without seeing the product other than advertisements in magazines. What next.

Lots of B/P firearms. No powder. A little powder makes it thru the pipeline and on to the shelves. No caps can be found. Or vice'a-versa. Back and forth for the past 7 years at least. Good thing I'm a individual who believes in self preparedness. I wouldn't like to find myself on the short end of that Sharp Stick these days concerning supplies. No Sir this is my intention long before that situation takes place. (link) If those in Charge think they have outsmarted many of us B/P shooters. Their going to find it a real challenge to think outside the box like many of us do.

http://www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/mag-spark.html
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Old April 6, 2014, 12:34 PM   #21
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Try Cabelas. I ordered 1000 a week or so ago and got them right away.
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Old April 6, 2014, 12:40 PM   #22
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If the only place you look is in the big box stores or huge internet dealers, yes...there is a shortage because of the numbers of people who go there. I rarely step foot in those places, preferring the small privately owned gun stores / pawn shops and am able to find pretty much anything when I need it. Not much of a problem at all on percussion caps. Buying a couple hundred at a time is really all I need and I've been able to find them without issue.

Similar to .22 LR, because of this "alleged shortage" .... instead of buying a box or two, people are buying thousands at a time. Production rates and wholesale purchasing are set from years of sales statistics. One little spike really doesn't warrant a company to run out and build new factories and buy new equipment....because as dumb as some people think they are...risking several million dollars in capital on a fad is not very sound business reasoning. But...if you really think it is a good idea because "of all the money to be made"......sell everything you have, go to the bank and borrow a few million and go for it.
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Old April 6, 2014, 01:36 PM   #23
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It's like the "hot toy" phenomenon that happens every Christmas. It's sold out everywhere because everybody wants one and everybody wants one because they are sold out everywhere.
Next year, nobody buys it because nobody wants it and nobody wants it because nobody buys it.
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Old April 6, 2014, 03:52 PM   #24
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I am new to both C&B shooting and this forum.

I have read about people using the dollar store ring caps as substitute for caps. So I tried them. I tried 6 to clear the nipples. OK, no problems. Then I tried them with cylinders loaded with Pyrodex P. Absolutely nothing. I remove the plastic, fitted #10 caps and everything worked fine.
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Old April 6, 2014, 04:17 PM   #25
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Nice to read a new members comments. You found a good place to hang out dgerwin11. Welcome to TFLF Sir.
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