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Old April 1, 2014, 08:05 AM   #1
cw308
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Clean inside of the neck

On a 308 cal. do you clean the inside of the neck?. If so what do you use.
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Old April 1, 2014, 08:25 AM   #2
jwrowland77
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Clean inside of the neck

Not really. I do take a q-tip and put some lube on it and run it inside the neck. I do this for all my bottleneck cases. Just makes it so much easier.
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Old April 1, 2014, 08:34 AM   #3
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RCBS Case Lube Kit http://www.midwayusa.com/product/672...-case-lube-kit http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/42...ase_Slick.html

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Old April 1, 2014, 08:49 AM   #4
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Yes I clean/lube the inside of the necks. nylon brush with a few drops of oil on it works well. The case necks just slide over expander ball.

Now it is more lubing than cleaning since I have gone to stainless steel pins for cleaning my brass.
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Old April 1, 2014, 10:49 AM   #5
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I clean when I wet tumble. I haven't lubed yet. I did pick up a powder neck lube system, and plan to when I start reloading again. (When I eventually get the space cleared to build a proper bench. I didn't NEED lube on my case necks, but I suspect it will work better if I do. There were a pair of definite "hitches" in the stroke that I hope will be at least a little smoothed out by the powder.
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Old April 1, 2014, 10:52 AM   #6
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.30 cal brush in a power screwdriver, just in & out, done!
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Old April 1, 2014, 11:14 AM   #7
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I run a nylon brush through the neck by hand; just enough to knock any loose carbon out.

I've totally cleaned necks and can feel the difference on bullets seating. No testing, I just decided that if I could feel the difference while seating, it probably effects bullet release when firing. I decided I wanted them consistently clean or consistently fouled and running a nylon brush in/out a couple times is easier for me, so that's what I do.

I tried powdered mica neck lube years ago and didn't care for it at all. It came in a little plastic cup with a lid that pilled off and was not replicable. Wanting something to keep it in where it wouldn't spill, I grabbed a tiny zip bag that some rifle parts or screws came in (bag was about 1.5"x1.5"). Had some people over one day and one of them wanted to check out my reloading stuff; when I saw the look on their face when they saw my little bag of mica dry lube, I decided it was time to throw it away.
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Old April 1, 2014, 11:49 AM   #8
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I agree with all & do the same, I have the time and only shoot 20 rounds at a range session, benchrest shooter. I'm cleaning the inside with hoppe's #9 and 0000 steel wool. The cases inside look brand new. Will be reloading to see how they seat & if it makes less runout.
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Old April 1, 2014, 02:39 PM   #9
Bart B.
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Put a bore brush in a medium spinning drill press (hand drill?) then run your case mouths over it back and forth a few times. This cleans out virtually all of the powder fouling and doensn't leave any lube which can contaminate powder or drastically change the release force needed to push the bullet out. And it lets expander balls go up and out easy as well as rounding the sharp edge that case prep tools put in case mouths.

'Tis my opinion the only thing that should touch the inside of a sized case neck before the bullet goes in is a charge of powder and air. Nary a smidgen of lube on the inside of the case; anywhere.
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Old April 1, 2014, 03:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
the only thing that should touch the inside of a sized case neck before the bullet goes in is a charge of powder and air
That's the kicker. I think you should clean the brass, lube, then size. Once that's all done clean the lube (and anything else) off then load.

A lot of times with my bolt gun brass I do not need to clean before I size. Just lube then trim/chamfer if needed.
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Old April 1, 2014, 03:42 PM   #11
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I run a nylon brush in the neck one time not sure if it helps or harms that's just what I do.
I never lube in side of neck before loading, lube and powder don't mix well.
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Old April 1, 2014, 03:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
'Tis my opinion the only thing that should touch the inside of a sized case neck before the bullet goes in is a charge of powder and air. Nary a smidgen of lube on the inside of the case; anywhere.
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Old April 1, 2014, 05:22 PM   #13
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I use just a brass brush too sometimes.

But, I have been called anal more than a few times too

Normal for me is, I have a universal deprime die I use first, Then the brass is cleaned, I don't want scratched dies.
I use a nylon brush with a small amount of lube when sizing rifle brass, I apply inside the neck when using normal sizing dies. Then trim/prep and back into the tumbler.

Brass flows when pushed or pulled.

Try this Simple test, Clean Two identical bottlenecked case, inside and out.
On one case with No lube inside of neck, size it. Now, put a small amount of lube on the inside of the other cleaned neck and size it.
Which one grew more when the sizing ball was drawn back threw?? You might want to clean any crud out of the die first..
YMMV
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Old April 1, 2014, 05:39 PM   #14
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First I tumble then I lube every other case to include the case mouth just at the opening since some lube will remain in the die body and on the expander ball. Afterwards, I ream the case mouth inside and outside then nylon brush the interior of the neck.
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Old April 1, 2014, 05:39 PM   #15
Bart B.
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I've compared case necks lubed inside and not with expander balls and lubed ones do stretch less. Sizing without balls works the neck brass half as much and doesn't change neck lengths much at all. And necks don't get bent out of alignment with the case body axis.
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Old April 1, 2014, 07:10 PM   #16
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You guys who are sizing .308 with no lube in the neck using a die that requires that you pull out an expander button are dreaming if you think you are not stretching the hell out of your neck and shoulder.

Just do a little before and after measuring. A die with a carbide button is better in that regard, but not all that much.

Bart B. is right when he said:

Quote:
I've compared case necks lubed inside and not with expander balls and lubed ones do stretch less. Sizing without balls works the neck brass half as much and doesn't change neck lengths much at all. And necks don't get bent out of alignment with the case body axis.
Worse than stretching the neck is stretching the shoulder. That will effect head space and chambering that trimming does not fix.

Unless you have a carbide button, most die makers instructions call for a little lube in the neck.

Bart B. is also right about expander buttons bending necks out of alignment.

I've been experimenting with an RCBS small-base full length sizer (with expander) on a large batch of LC 7.62 brass tumbled bright with wet stainless steel media, with one goal... get straight concentric brass. Overworking it seemed the only way until I discovered a trick at the end. Yes I lube the necks...tried several ways and ended up back where I started 43 years ago, with a lube pad and brush. I'm consistently getting .001 to .002" runout where before the experiment expanders gave me .004 to .006".....and that was with a little lubing as well.

If you are interested read the thread and and draw your own conclusions.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=543610 Or, if you want, be my guest and skip to page 2 to see what the conclusion was.

And keep in mind that not having to expand at all is the best way as Bart suggests, but many don't have the special dies (or skills) to do that. I am pleased with the end result still using a plain Jane stock RCBS sizer. (small-base even)

All that said.....I realize could be possible that I need to de-lube the necks before I charge...I say could be, because according to RCBS's die instructions...if you use the lube pad and only the nylon brush inside, you are removing enough of it already as you extract the sizer button. They don't recommend more effort than that.
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Last edited by GWS; April 1, 2014 at 07:22 PM.
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Old April 2, 2014, 08:24 AM   #17
cw308
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All my prep work is before sizing,I also run a patch dry inside the case. when sizing ( neck size ) I do lightly lube inside & out of neck, then clean inside and retumble, just wasn't sure by using hoppy's 9 would cause some kind of problem to the brass
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Old April 2, 2014, 09:00 AM   #18
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Here is a simple tool I use to do the job. I simply change out the primer pocket cleaner with a stainless steel bore brush of caliber size. Which can purchase from brownells. One clockwise twist in a shells neck and that stainless bore brush removers all residue period.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/116...ProductFinding

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleanin...-prod1283.aspx
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Old April 2, 2014, 09:21 AM   #19
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I agree with the bore brush cleaning method. I find the slightly rough, bare brass surface actually produces more consistent seating and pull than either a smooth clean surface or a fouled surface does. I believe this is because the roughness averages out surface contact with the bullet.

As to the lubes, they are essential for best inside neck sizing, whether by expander or by mandrel, but if you can avoid inside neck sizing altogether, that's best.

Lubing for loading is used by some. This article describes getting good results from putting "Froggy's Lube" inside necks with a Q-tip before seating. It's a product no longer offered, but I heard it was just graphite in alcohol, so it would have dried before the bullet was seated. I would think that's difficult to apply completely evenly, but all the bugholes reported suggest it's not hurting. It might also be that an alcohol slurry with motor mica would work, giving MtnCreek an alternative use for his Baggie of the stuff.

Fortunately, all the above can be tested simply. Whether it's the neck cleaning method (or lack thereof) or the use of a dry lube or bare brass for bullet seating, just take a chronograph to the range and see what happens to velocity SD. If it gets bigger, you've made the wrong move. If it gets better, you're on to something.

One caution: when you start changing how you do anything, be aware that your pet load charge level may change, too. Altering start pressure can change barrel time a little and, particularly if you have a gun with a light, whippy barrel, that can move you off the best tuned load's barrel time, necessitating a charge adjustment to get back in the middle of the best range. Half a grain of powder is typical with moly bullets, so you may find some similar change here.
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Old April 2, 2014, 10:04 AM   #20
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This stuff is like hot horse shoes, it does not take me long to look at it. Years ago I purchased an RCBS Case Prep center, the prep center is designed to have a brush installed on the top near the neck lube reservoir, instead of having the brush sitting still and doing nothing I installed it into one of the back rotating heads. Brush/clean the neck and let the rotating brush do the work. There is not much that beats picking up a case once and removing the military crimp, uniform the primer pockets, bevel/tapper and brush the inside of the case. No one said the brush had to be neck size, I know, it could be rough on the brush.

There must be something to be said for picking up a case and flipping it once and be done. The RCBS case prep center is the first tool I make room for, I may not use it but JIC.

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Old April 2, 2014, 11:12 AM   #21
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Unclenick, thanks,the artical was a good read, I use a RCBS regular neck die, tried some loads without the expander, sounded reasionable,didn't do much & most people on this sight didn't recommend it. I don't neck turn my brass. Went back to the regular way, even with standard dies I get .001 - .0015 runout. Using RCBS single stage Rockchucker Press, reloading 25 max. at a time, so I have time to prep & check my brass, always looking to make it better. Thats why I ask questions. To all Thank You
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Old April 2, 2014, 11:31 AM   #22
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If you are sizing without the expander, realize that the neck portion will get too small if the die isn't altered. Forcing a bullet into that undersized neck can bend it too. Bart keeps a collection of .308 dies he picked up at gunshows, each with the neck honed out to a slightly different diameter so he can select one to match the neck thickness of a particular lot of brass he's sizing such that the ID comes out where an expander would have left it. That's the best method as it assures the most rigid alignment between the neck and case body throughout the sizing event.

I've had good luck using the Lee Collet Die in combination with a Redding Body die. The Collet Die sizes the inside of the neck to a mandrel the right diameter so it doesn't care what the neck thickness is. The body die is like an FL die for the shoulder down, and doesn't touch the neck. This combination does pretty well if you don't have the dies to modify.
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Old April 2, 2014, 09:12 PM   #23
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Yes.....My tumbler handles that chore
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Old April 2, 2014, 09:28 PM   #24
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Case neck brush in a drill.
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Old April 4, 2014, 05:24 PM   #25
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And to think I just spray Hornady One-Shot into the case necks as I'm spraying the tray of 50...and still hit what I'm aimin' at...
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