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Old March 17, 2014, 05:01 PM   #26
shortwave
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kwhi43

That's some fine shooting...along with a beauty of a Hawkins.

From the looks of the beautiful grain in the furniture, I'd say that's an older flinter. Would that be correct?

The T/C Hawkins 50cal. I spoke of earlier is an older one purchased new in the early 70's. It has a beautiful stock as well while the stock on the Seneca purchased by my dad around 81-82 has more of a straight grained stock and is not near as pretty.
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Old March 17, 2014, 07:00 PM   #27
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I put it together from a Thomspson Center kit in 1976.
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Old March 17, 2014, 07:23 PM   #28
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You did a nice job.

Again, good looking stock.
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Old March 17, 2014, 08:48 PM   #29
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targets

Kwhi: Sweet shooting.
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Old March 17, 2014, 09:11 PM   #30
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This is pretty typical for my shaky hands 100 yard single. Not a true cold bore, but pretty close. The bore had been cleaned and the rifle had sat unfired for an hour or so while watching men MUCH better at me sling mega lead at 600 yards.
.490 LRB, .010 ticking patch lubed with trappers mink oil over 80gr of FFg



It's just one big thing really.......a list of a bunch of little things

Twist, fit, patch, ball, developed charge.

A lot of times if I'm shooting past 100 yards, I'll use a .490 with a thicker patch like a 15 instead of a 10. Most of the time with that, a sharp whack from a little wood mallet on the short starter is needed to get the ball past the muzzle.
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Old March 18, 2014, 08:50 AM   #31
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I don't know. Maybe its just me. But 90 grs of 2-FF under a little 45 cal patched ball seems a bit excessive to me. You would think a fair amount of un-burnt powder would be seen coming out of one barrel under that circumstance. But whatever works.
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Old March 18, 2014, 09:19 AM   #32
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Same here Sure Shot. My .45 Seneca seems to like about 70-75grns of APP with a .440 x .127grn ball.

But if 90 is workin...
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Old March 18, 2014, 09:57 AM   #33
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Range-Time Confirms !!!

Quote:
You would think a fair amount of un-burnt powder would be seen coming out of one barrel under that circumstance.
This is true under all circumstances. The key is to minimize the amount of un-burnt you expel. ....
Quote:
Same here Sure Shot. My .45 Seneca seems to like about 70-75grns of APP with a .440 x .127grn ball.
With any S.S. M/L, there will always be an "optimum" target and hunting load and as an example, my .45 and .50 target load, is in the 70-75grn range. My optimum hunting load runs in the 90-95grn. range. Of course, I have to put in some range time with my hunting load, just to confirm that optimum. ..

As shortwave has inferred; If the 90 is working well for you, don't change a thing. ...

Be Safe !!!
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Old March 18, 2014, 11:55 AM   #34
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Quote:
This is true under all circumstances. The key is to minimize the amount of un-burnt you expel
This is exactly right Pahoo.

Un-burnt powder does nothing for your shot. It's...well...just un-burnt wasted powder.

Have tested a lot of powder charges that different rifles have preferred and have yet not to get some un-burnt powder. As Pahoo wisely stated, getting the minimum of un-burnt and still hitting accurately is key.

Found the same to be true with all bp firearms shooting any projectiles.
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Old March 18, 2014, 01:04 PM   #35
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The load I shoot is the same as what most folks shoot at Friendship in their 45's. You want the ball going around 2,000 fps for accuracy. Most bench guns
take around 150-180 grs FF. My load was arrived at after very careful shooting off sandbags almost 40 years ago. I went thru about a lb. of FFF and
a lb. of FF I shoot a .454 dia ball and use .020 thick Teflon coated patching.
This has won me many matches through the years. The bore on the rifle is
.450 and groove is .470 . One turn in 60. Made by H&H in 1975. 32" long. I
once hit 15 pennys in a row at 50 yds before I missed on the 16th.
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Old March 18, 2014, 01:42 PM   #36
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kwhi43

No argument here with what's working ...and no doubt, it's working for ya .

Again, great shooting.

Will one day slug my .45 bbl to get its dimensions. Wish it was a 1/60 but sadly it's a 1/48.

Last edited by shortwave; March 18, 2014 at 01:49 PM.
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Old March 18, 2014, 02:33 PM   #37
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I agree with un-burnt powder being a waste, however, my 54 renegade needs 100 gr of ffg to shoot well. I use a .530 pbr and at 50 yards the ball hits right where the top of the front sight is on the target. I run 70 gr of ffg in my .45 hawken under a .440 pbr and it works fine also. The 54 seems to need the extra powder as a buffer. I have tried different charges and it just wont shoot. IMO a 1:48 twist is just no good in a 26" bbl in 54 caliber. That being said, I know that one of you fine gents will prove that wrong...
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Old March 18, 2014, 04:08 PM   #38
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Please explain !!!

Quote:
That being said, I know that one of you fine gents will prove that wrong...
I don't really see we can or should .....
Quote:
The 54 seems to need the extra powder as a buffer.
Not sure I understand. What do you mean by using extra powder as a "buffer"? I think I know but have never heard this reference. Not questioning, just don't understand.. ...

Be Safe !!!
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Old March 18, 2014, 04:12 PM   #39
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I agree with the 54 charge as my Hawken does like a heavier charge under its ball also. (90grs to be exact.) _

As far as that stout 100 gr. loading in a 45. I too have a factory Rd Ball barrel (only) on my 45 also. (T/Cs) _ But where the difference is Sir is who their manufactures were. With all due respect. Your barrel as read has much deeper rifling than a stock T/C barrel. So no doubt your barrel would be much better equipped for more accuracy having that ball engraving feature alone.
Again there is absolutely no way my barrel would accept a oversize .454 ball with .020 patching that I know of. Something that size forced down a T/Cs barrel would be quite similar to Slugging it for measurement's with its breech removed. Not a favorite hobby of mine. Anyhow.~~Congrads on your shooting ability Sir. I know I couldn't do the same. Even on my best day let alone in competition. _
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Old March 18, 2014, 06:18 PM   #40
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eyes

Quote:
once hit 15 pennys in a row at 50 yds before I missed on the 16th.
I am pretty sure that I would have trouble seeing a penny at 50 yards.
Pete
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Old March 18, 2014, 06:44 PM   #41
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2damnold4this,

Here is a great synopsis of what has been stated here in different posts for target shooting:

http://www.blackpowderjournal.com/ar...1no2/articles/...

I know this article is for a 50cal. but the same procedures should be followed for any cal. bp.

Will have to look for the hunting load article.
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Old March 18, 2014, 07:20 PM   #42
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Here is how the big boys at Friendship shoot. This is a 50 yd target shot in a
bench rest match. Notice there are two shots in the practice bull. This was shot
last summer.


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Old March 18, 2014, 08:04 PM   #43
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And we wonder how accurate m/l'ers can be.
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Old March 19, 2014, 12:29 PM   #44
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Pahoo

Out of all the loads I have tried in the .54, it likes 100gr of 2f under a .530 ball. It does not burn all that powder in 26 inches but, it shoots great with that load. I have tried Maxis, Minnies and pbr in both .530 and .535. Charges from 60gr up to 100 gr. It just is what it is. If I cut the charge back to 90gr, the groups open up drastically. With the 100gr charge its nothing to head shoot squirrels at 35 yards or so. As far as proving me wrong , I know someone out there has a 54 with a 1:48 twist that will cut holes with 50gr charges.......
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Old March 19, 2014, 03:23 PM   #45
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originally posted by Sure Shot Mc Gee :

Quote:
As far as that stout 100 gr. loading in a 45. I too have a factory Rd Ball barrel (only) on my 45 also. (T/Cs) _ But where the difference is Sir is who their manufactures were. With all due respect. Your barrel as read has much deeper rifling than a stock T/C barrel. So no doubt your barrel would be much better equipped for more accuracy having that ball engraving feature alone
Visited Friendship a couple times myself. Didn't shoot, was JAFO.

Would it be fair to say that most(all) of the 'big boys' that compete at Friendship and travel the circuit do not have factory stock rifles?

FWIW...am thinking very seriously of heading Friendship's way again this June. Had a blast the two times I was there.

Last edited by shortwave; March 19, 2014 at 03:38 PM.
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Old March 19, 2014, 05:22 PM   #46
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I will be there in June for 9 days. I only shoot pistol now days. Can't see with
the right eye . I would say nobody shoots a factory rifle there except in the
factory only matches. Some like me shoot a factory rifle with a match grade barrel. Nobody shoots any factory pistols either except in the "As Issue"
revolver matches . It's hard enough to win there without handicaping yourself
shooting a factory gun. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.
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Old March 19, 2014, 05:29 PM   #47
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Quote:
I will be there in June for 9 days
May see you there.

I'm going to try to line up a trip meeting up with my brother that lives in Michigan and spend a few days in Friendship.
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Old March 19, 2014, 05:41 PM   #48
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Will look forward to seeing you. Here is what the wife and I look like. Anyway.
what we looked like last June.

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Old March 19, 2014, 06:24 PM   #49
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I'll be able to spot that handsome couple anywhere.

As June approach's will PM you and let you know if/when we'll be there.

Sorry for the slight thread veer OP.
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Old March 20, 2014, 05:34 AM   #50
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BR BP

KWHI43: Those BR targets....iron sights?

Pete
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