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Old March 13, 2014, 04:42 PM   #1
Kansas Shooter
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Experience with CLEO Signature on Form 4

Back in late August I bought an AR lower receiver that was registerd as a SBR by the factory (Colt). I bought it from an out of-state S.O.T. and it has since transfered to my dealer in Kansas. I received my Form 4's the other day from my dealer and today I called and left a message for my sheriff, to see when I could meet him at his office to get his signature (the county seat is roughly 20 minutes south-east of where I live and work). The sheriff was a long-time deputy who was voted to succeed our last one after he retired a few years ago. Not many people in the county owns items that are undrer the NFA and the sheriff told me this would be his first SBR to approve. I have a friend who went to him for signatures on the machine guns he owns.

Toward the end of the day he returned my call. After some pleasantries he said he understood I had a form for him to sign to transfer a "short rifle" to me. I said, "yes", and asked when a good time would be for me to drive down to see him. He then told me that he would gladly sign-off, and that he would drive up to meet me, either today or tomorrow! He has other business here both days, but it impressed me that he would go out of his way to make this convenient for me.

I have read a lot of posts online from people who have had less-than desired experiences when attempting to get their CLEO's signatures on their Form 1's and 4's and wanted to share my experience. Now if there was a way to get a similar response from the A.T.F......

Last edited by Kansas Shooter; March 13, 2014 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Title Change
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Old March 14, 2014, 06:20 PM   #2
Willie Lowman
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My sheriff has always been friendly and glad to sign my form 4s. I understand that the sheriff two counties to the north west of me simply will not sign them.
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Old March 14, 2014, 06:49 PM   #3
Sharkbite
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VERY COOL

None of the Sheriffs around me will sign. When i decided to get into NFA stuff i emailed the local SO and introduced myself (lots of creds showing im a good guy).

He never even responded. When i called and asked to speak with the Sheriff, i was asked what i wanted to talk with him about. After explaining what i wanted i was told in no uncertain terms. "He wont sign anything like that"

Never even got to speak to him. Just a NO.....

The next day i started a trust and SBR'd a receiver and bought a suppressor. He can kiss my backside
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Old March 15, 2014, 04:20 PM   #4
weblance
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My Sheriff was interested in my purchase(a 22 silencer) and signed my forms with no hesitation. We then talked guns for 30 minutes. A great experience.
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Old March 15, 2014, 06:16 PM   #5
Kansas Shooter
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Quote:
He never even responded. When i called and asked to speak with the Sheriff, i was asked what i wanted to talk with him about. After explaining what i wanted i was told in no uncertain terms. "He wont sign anything like that"

Never even got to speak to him. Just a NO.....

The next day i started a trust and SBR'd a receiver and bought a suppressor. He can kiss my backside
That's no good; sorry to hear. Before I bought my lower, I called the sheriff's office just to see if he would sign. Everyone I talked to said he would; It just surprised me that he'd be that willing. I've heard that a police chief or judge can approve a transfer too, but that the county sheriff is better because he is the "highest", elected official. Can others sign off and have their approval be just as good?
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Old March 15, 2014, 06:20 PM   #6
Kansas Shooter
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Quote:
My Sheriff was interested in my purchase(a 22 silencer) and signed my forms with no hesitation. We then talked guns for 30 minutes. A great experience.
I'll bet my experience will be similar...I have a couple of friends on the Sheriff's Reaerve. I know from them that their boss is a gun guy too.
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Old March 15, 2014, 09:58 PM   #7
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Its all worked out better. With a trust and no CLEO signature or prints i was able to Efile. Should have my Stamp for the SBR back any day. Same for the first suppressor.

More on the way

Its just stupid that Sheriff's wont sign. No liability to them, just an acknowledgement that the NFA stuff is in their county. By refusing to sign they force people into the trust route. Same stuff gets into their county (faster now with Eforms) and they have NO CONTROL over it. DUMB
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Old March 18, 2014, 08:14 AM   #8
Skans
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No more sign-off's where I live now. But, 13 years ago, the Sheriff would sign and did sign off on my Form 4. However, he did have one of his staff conduct a very thorough investigation which consisted of:

1. unannounced visit to your residence to ask neighbors questions about whether they noticed large amounts of liquor bottles in your trash, drugs, domestic problems (yelling, fighting), etc.

2. interview with me

3. interview with my wife - to make sure I wasn't a wife-beater.

4. background check for arrests.

Apparently the Sheriff, who was very machine gun friendly himself, got burned when he signed off on someone who was a wife-beater and the papers picked this up and made a stink out of it.
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Old March 18, 2014, 11:24 AM   #9
Machineguntony
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I've tried asking for signatures from my Police chief and Sheriff. I didn't even get a no. Just silence.
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Old March 18, 2014, 11:36 AM   #10
Sharkbite
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MGT.

Where in the country do you live. We might be neighbors.

How rude is it to not even respond to a simple question. That has me as mad as the not signing part.

IIRC the Sheriff is an ELECTED official. Ok i know he is. So you run and get elected and then cant even be bothered to return an email or phone call???

Its election time for the Sheriff of these here parts.... Guess who im NOT voting for?
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Old March 18, 2014, 11:45 AM   #11
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Shark,

I am in Austin, Texas.

You will find me shooting at the texasfiringline range in Georgetown, TX. They're NFA friendly. The owners are really nice people.

I have my first machine guns and suppressors coming in late May. If you're near, let's go shooting.

May...that's almost 12 months of waiting. Barf.

I guess in the CLEOs defense, since they're elected, they're not going to risk the bad political and media consequences if anything happens with the signee, whether or not the signee's transgression is related to the NFA item. But, yea, I would have appreciated at least a "no".

You'd think that since we are in 2A friendly Texas, things would be different. Nope.
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Last edited by Machineguntony; March 18, 2014 at 11:50 AM.
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Old March 18, 2014, 12:26 PM   #12
Sharkbite
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Im in the mtns of Colorado. Texas appeals to me though. Im thinking about a move. Tired of the SNOW!!!!
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Old March 18, 2014, 12:29 PM   #13
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I do love the winter skiing in Colorado. We have no skiing in Texas, FYI lol.

I try to head up to Colorado at least once a year.

If I lived in the mountains, I'd be shooting and skiing all the time. I love watching biathalon events.
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Old March 18, 2014, 01:54 PM   #14
Sharkbite
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The ski lift operators in Telluride get all pissy when i try to get on with my sniper rifle
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Old March 18, 2014, 03:01 PM   #15
Kansas Shooter
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Quote:
Same stuff gets into their county (faster now with Eforms) and they have NO CONTROL over it. DUMB
Wouldn't it be the same for someone with a NFA item moving between NFA friendly states? Unfriendly L.E. won't really keep their counties "safe" from those items by not signing... Does the ATF notify the new county/city when a a change of address form is received? I'm not planning on moving, but just curious.

Quote:
The ski lift operators in Telluride get all pissy when i try to get on with my sniper rifle
I can't imagine why they would not like that, lol

Thanks for the responses; I just wanted to share my good experience since I know there are a lot of people who have bad ones.

BTW, have the changes to the NFA trust route been made? I lost track of where that went.
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Old March 18, 2014, 03:32 PM   #16
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No notification is made to CLEO when you move into their county AFAIK

So, again it makes no sense that they refuse to sign for law obiding citizens.

The Tulluride people are all too stoned with the new pot law that they wouldnt notice anyway

No changes to trust laws yet. Set up a trust... Buy what you want...owned by the trust. No CLEO sign off. No prints. No photo. Can use the Efile system

Get er done!!!!
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Old March 18, 2014, 05:13 PM   #17
Skans
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So, again it makes no sense that they refuse to sign for law abiding citizens.
Actually, it does make sense. Being the Sheriff is an elected position. All it takes is one person for whom the Sheriff signed off on a Form 4 to do something stupid, like beat his wife, and the liberal paper's headlines will read:

SHERIFF ALLOWED MAN ARRESTED FOR BEATING HIS WIFE TO BUY A MACHINE GUN You can substitute "drunk", "drunk driver", "child molester", etc. for "wife-beater"

That's why the law needs to be amended to state "shall sign" rather than make it arbitrarily discretionary for the Sheriff.
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Old March 18, 2014, 05:41 PM   #18
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What makes no sense to me is...why, when waiting for the stamp from ATF, the time goes by so slowly, but, yesterday, when I was 18, the time flew by so quickly that today I am now in my 40s? It makes no sense. Can Stephen Hawking please answer my question?

BTW, is it 2015 yet?
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Old March 19, 2014, 08:56 AM   #19
Kansas Shooter
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Quote:
What makes no sense to me is...why, when waiting for the stamp from ATF, the time goes by so slowly, but, yesterday, when I was 18, the time flew by so quickly that today I am now in my 40s? It makes no sense. Can Stephen Hawking please answer my question?
If you get an answer from him, post it here so I'll know too! Time goes fast until you are waiting for something you've already paid for...I can only imagine what I'm in for since this is my first NFA purchase.
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Old March 19, 2014, 09:03 AM   #20
Sharkbite
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Ive tried to take my mind off the wait time for my first suppressor by shopping for others

This has turned into an expensive way to keep ones mind otherwise occupied, i dont reccomend it

As it happened trying to avoid thinking about the first by shopping for another (obviously) led to purchasing a second. Trying to take my mind off that has led to a third..... Pattern forming!!!

I need help.....

"Hello, my name is Richard and im addicted to quite guns....."
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Old March 19, 2014, 12:23 PM   #21
Willie Lowman
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Sharkbite, the best thing to do is always have something in transfer. It's good luck.
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Old March 19, 2014, 12:47 PM   #22
Sharkbite
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Hmmm. I dont have an AOW stamp in my collection.

Any Suggestions???

So far its SBR's and Suppressors. Full auto stuff is just crazy expensive
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Old March 19, 2014, 12:52 PM   #23
Willie Lowman
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An AOW? Serbu Super Shorty!



My buddy got these three in a few years ago. I had to keep one.



The SSS is stupid fun to shoot. (the factory grip has to be changed) The regular model is a 2+1 Mossberg. Mine is a 3+1 Remington.
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Old March 19, 2014, 03:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Lowman
The SSS is stupid fun to shoot.
Amen to that! I've shot the Mossberg version and it's a blast!

(Wait, that's a terrible pun. But it sure is true!)
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Old March 19, 2014, 03:38 PM   #25
Kansas Shooter
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I've tried asking for signatures from my Police chief and Sheriff. I didn't even get a no. Just silence.
I'm about to hijack my own thread, but it's related to our topic;

I saw where KY is in the process of passing "Shall Certify" legislation concerning CLEO approving NFA transfers. According to the link below, they have 15 days to approve/disprove and if it an application is denied, there will be an appeals process put in place. The bill passed the Senate yesterday unanimously. Maybe other states will file suit (probably only "friendly" ones, though). I didn't check GD to see if this topic has been brought up, so sorry if it's a dupe. http://www.nraila.org/legislation/st...ate-house.aspx

Last edited by Kansas Shooter; March 20, 2014 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Typing Error
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