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Old March 10, 2014, 09:55 AM   #1
velocette
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Beware folks. squib loads

I work part time as a range officer at a large municipal range.
As such, I pick up rounds that fail to fire, pull their bullets & use them to reload for practice ammo.
Today, I pulled apart two RP .223 rounds. Primers with solid hits.
When I pulled them, the problem was evident. No powder.
The primers had fired but the bullets had not broken their crimp hold.
The backs of the bullets were black clearly indicating that the primer had fired.
Here is a prime condition for a blown up rifle. Had the bullets broken their crimp and lodged in the barrel, there would have been a blown up rifle.
Knowing the skill level of most of the shooters I see, there is no question in my mind that the shooter with these rounds would (and did) cycle the bolt & proceeded to fire the next round.
Folks Beware if it sounds or feels different, investigate carefully!

Roger
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Old March 10, 2014, 11:26 AM   #2
Unlicensed Dremel
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Thank you for the reminder. Let's all be safe and listen for the report on EACH shot, and never rapid-fire with reloads.

However, in reality, there's no way that you can know whether this shooter did or did not (a) resume shooting, and/or (b) hear the squib, stop, clear action, then visually check barrel before resuming shooting. Probably not, but you never know.
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Old March 10, 2014, 12:24 PM   #3
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Remington LR ammo has been very erratic lately. I have a target rifle that has tight headspace and I noticed this morning that some went in loose and other rims were extremely tight and I had to force the bolt closed so much I feared they would go off, but none did. There were also some misfires.

Misfires are common with most bulk ammo, but sometimes even the most expensive match ammo will do it once in a while.

CCI ammo seems to be quite uniform for it's price and the Standard Velocity seems to shoot accurately and functions in many semi-autos.
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Old March 10, 2014, 01:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
However, in reality, there's no way that you can know whether this shooter did or did not (a) resume shooting, and/or (b) hear the squib, stop, clear action, then visually check barrel before resuming shooting. Probably not, but you never know.
I can name one easy way to know:
He could have been watching the shooter.
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Old March 10, 2014, 02:03 PM   #5
nemesiss45
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I dont know if it was a squib or an over charged load, but when I was a teenager, I was out shooting one of my dad's garands with some reloads that were in a bulk lot of mixxed ammo he had traded for... yeah, you can feel the stupid already, cant you... anyway... 3rd shot in the gun surges and collapses in my hands. It took a second to realize what happened, then I saw the gun in pieces on the ground and I had blood pouring out of my face and arm. I had a couple friends with my that were just staring in horror as I walked toward them bleeding, asking them if I was ok... because I saw the blood, but could not feel the pain. I pulled off my shirt and tied it on my arm where there was a deep puncture, then drove home (my friends could not drive stick). My dad then drove me to the hoslital. I was lucky I had shooting glasses, because the X ray showed small particles of metal embedded in my face all over from chin to forehead (a lot of blood, but little damage). I had abrasions and splinters in my forearm from the stock breaking in half, and I had some smaller lacerations on my upper arm and a puncture from a fragment of metal that is still in my bicep to this day. After I got patched up, we went back the the range to find the parts of the gun I didnt grab at first. I found the back of the reciever a solid 50 yrd away, behind me. I thank god it missed my face. We found the clip where the initial explosion had ignited the remaining rounds in the magazine, all of which appeared to have helped throw shrapnel sideways into my arm.

So yeah, take it from me.... be careful of squibs, and never ever ever shoot unknown reloads

Last edited by nemesiss45; March 10, 2014 at 04:34 PM.
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Old March 10, 2014, 08:27 PM   #6
James K
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That doesn't sound like either a squib load or an overcharge, it sounds like firing out of battery, with the round going off outside the chamber and the escaping gas blowing the receiver apart. Obviously, at this remove it is impossible to determine exactly what happened, but M1 rifles have been known to fire out of battery for several reasons. Some folks lump all such incidents under the "slam fire" category, but that description is not necessarily accurate, as well as being often misunderstood. Such things should not happen, but then many things happen that should not.

Jim
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Old March 10, 2014, 09:14 PM   #7
nemesiss45
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Hmm, maybe... I wouldnt call it a slam fire because I pulled the trigger to set it off. I should see if my dad still has it laying around, and maybe I can figure it out
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Old March 10, 2014, 09:32 PM   #8
Bart B.
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Read #17 in this thread:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...t=click+190+44

Your Garand may have shot a round half full of Bullseye pistol powder. That's what happened to an old low number M1903 folks couldn't destroy with a case packed full and compressed 4895 under 200 gr. bullets. It's receiver flew apart in much the same way.

One squib load where the bullet left the case was an Eley Tenex .22 match rifmire round in my Anschutz 1911 prone gun. When it fired, the sound was muffled but the rifle jumped about normally. No bullet trace to the target was seen through the scope. Got out of prone, pulled the bolt then pushed a cleaning rod down the bore. The bullet had stopped about 2 inches short of the 27 inch barrel's muzzle. Cleaned the bore then resumed shooting. Later, I emailed Eley in England and asked for a monetary refund for that grain of powder I paid for but was never shipped to the retailer I bought it from. The Eley rep laughed and said I should try to get from the USA distributor as they chose to buy that lot of ammo over several others. We both had a good laugh over it.

The other squib was military 9mm that only went click in my Browning Hi Power. Pulling the slide back brought the empty case with it. Couldn't see the breech through the muzzle end; it's bullet had jammed into the rifling. Removed the barrel then my wooden from my kit got hammered with my staple gun into it and drove that blackened-butt bullet back out.
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Last edited by Bart B.; March 10, 2014 at 09:59 PM.
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Old March 10, 2014, 10:17 PM   #9
nemesiss45
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Here are some pics of the remaining parts of the gun.







You can see the rementant of the case still in the chamber. The receiver was tacked back together, but you can see the cracks where it broke apart. The bullets do look to me like it fired out of battery, but im no expert.
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Old March 10, 2014, 10:34 PM   #10
James K
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I don't think that receiver "broke apart". It was one of those that was scrapped by the Army back in the 60's and de-militarized by being cut in half with a diamond saw. Folks bought the scrap and picked over the pieces so they could find fronts and rears to weld together and sell, with nice new Parkerizing, to those who wanted M1 rifles and couldn't get them. Some of those "cut and weld" receivers were also used to make simulated M14 rifles of several types.

One of the drawbacks of the "cut and weld" process was that the lower receiver bridge, which keeps the firing pin from moving forward until the bolt is locked, might not work if the receiver was shortened in the restoration process.

I have no doubt that you were the victim of just that kind of incident. The people who did that work knew that the product could be dangerous, but most were small time shops and they really didn't care. They also knew the chances of catching up with them were nil, since there were dozens of shops involved and probably twice that many "company" names.

For more detail, check this out:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/M1G-FAQs/Weld.htm

Jim
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Old March 10, 2014, 10:41 PM   #11
nemesiss45
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Lol, well that sucks. Wish I knew what shop did it
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Old March 10, 2014, 11:02 PM   #12
Unlicensed Dremel
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Quote:
I can name one easy way to know:
He could have been watching the shooter.
No, he said this:

Quote:
Knowing the skill level of most of the shooters I see, there is no question in my mind that the shooter with these rounds would (and did) cycle the bolt & proceeded to fire the next round.
He was basing it on his *knowledge* of the skill level of MOST of the shooters he sees, meaning he did not see.
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