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Old March 8, 2014, 09:00 PM   #1
Prof Young
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News about the 16 hours of Training for CC in IL

So, I stopped by the LGS/range today where they have been offering the 16 hours of training one needs to get the concealed carry under Illinois new laws. I mostly went to look for powder and ammo and drool over the gun case. I asked the guy about what the 16 hours covered. Amazingly the only things required by the state are info about the FOID act (Firearms Owner Identification card) and a shooting test. He describe the test and I'm pretty sure I could pass it today without any training. So what fills the rest of the sixteen hours? Whatever the trainer wants to put in. AMAZINGLY the legislature did not have 16 hours worth of specific material they wanted the Illinois concealed carry permit holders to have. They just wanted 16 hours. How stupid and pathetic is that. I'm a touch angry and think there will be some letters to my state reps soon.

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Old March 8, 2014, 09:51 PM   #2
ThesNazud
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And that is Illinois politics at it's finest... Sad, sad, sad...
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Old March 8, 2014, 10:09 PM   #3
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Yep, my instructor was very clear on that part, that his course was almost entirely designed by him with little guidance from the state. He stressed that he was not a lawyer, and that we needed to read the law ourselves. We were all given copies of the relevant parts of the law.

Prior to taking the course I was worried that, because of the exceptionally cold and snowy weather we've had this winter I hadn't been to the range since October and had concerns about being rusty for the shooting portion. So I went to an indoor range and asked for the target you need to qualify with, he pulls out this gigantic silhouette roughly the size of a barn door! Took 100 shots at it from 10 yards (the maximum distance in the qualifying) and I don't think I missed it once though I didn't count the holes. There was certainly no reason to worry, though some people in my class did just barely pass. I have a feeling some of them had never fired a gun before, one guy held his support hand thumb behind the slide and had to have it bandaged up to stop the bleeding...
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Old March 9, 2014, 08:32 AM   #4
Hal
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Quote:
They just wanted 16 hours. How stupid and pathetic is that. I'm a touch angry and think there will be some letters to my state reps soon.
16 hours = at least two days.
That means the cost of the class can be doubled, it becomes something that can't be completed by a lot of people in one weekend since they may have to work either a Saturday or a Sunday and in general - it makes in very inconvenient for most people.

Oh yeah, I forgot the real biggie.
Ohio wouldn't recognize any other out of state permits unless that state also had the same or greater number of hours in their courses.


Yes - it's stupid and pathetic & very juvenile on the part of the legislature.
We had to suffer through a lot of crapola like that here in Ohio @ first.
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Old March 9, 2014, 11:13 AM   #5
Gunnels
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In Texas the concealed carry class lasted about 12 hours including the shooting portion (although it has been shortened now). Some of the time (about 1 to 2 hours) was spent on gun safety which basically meant making sure you know how to make sure a gun is unloaded.

Another 6 hours were spent making sure you understand the laws around concealed carry. Stuff like you can't carry in a school or sporting event but you can carry in the state capital building. There was also good advice on stuff like how to interact with the police if you are carrying and what to expect if you ever have to use your weapon. They also explained the additional steps you had to go through to get your license after you finished the course.

The shooting portion was easy. It was basically shooting at a large target at a distance of 5 feet. I think all they want to ensure is that you know how to operate a gun.

All in all, I think it was time well spent. I felt a lot more confident with knowledge I learned.
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Old March 9, 2014, 03:37 PM   #6
Mike38
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I have yet to take the class for my Illinois CCL. But I have picked the place for instruction. I’m waiting for the weather to break now, not in a hurry really. Anyhow, while searching for a class location / trainer, one of the guys told me the following.

Day one (8 hours) will cover handgun handling cleaning and proper storage, laws, etc. Day two will be an overview of day one, then get instructed on what to expect at the range for qualification. If you are the first one to shoot for qualification, and pass, you can go home. Your actual total time will be 12-13 hours, but the training report sent to the state will say 16 hours. So, volunteer to be first on the range, and go home early.

Each place may be different, who knows? Some may make you stay until the last shot is fired, just to make up for the full 16 hours.

If anyone has taken the class held in Princeton Illinois given by the Police Chief, please PM me and let me know all about it. That’s the place I’ve chosen so far, but can change as I’ve not paid yet.
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Old March 9, 2014, 06:46 PM   #7
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hey just wanted 16 hours. How stupid and pathetic is that. I'm a touch angry and think there will be some letters to my state reps soon.
Think about how you approach your state reps. You may find some sentiment in dictating the training in a manner not particularly helpful. Having said that, I really think some official video training from the state would be very helpful on the law; i.e., where can you cannot carry and the law of self-defense. This gets past the natural reluctance of many trainers in giving advice on the law. Here, the state produces a video and the applicants have to pass a written test over the law. The test is not that difficult but at least insures an applicant doesn't sleep through the video. I bet most states do something similar.
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Old March 9, 2014, 07:25 PM   #8
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This IL state requirement has the same ultimate goal that all other gun control measures have ever had in the United States; to keep guns out of the hands of the poor.

How many poverty stricken citizens can devote 16hrs to a course, or pay the additional fees? EXACTLY the same arguments that the left used against tighter voter registration laws can be used against gun control measures like these. (Ie, it requires additional fees, transportation costs, possible time away from work, or the necessity of hiring child care, etc)

You have to admit though, disarming the poor (especially minorities, or 'urban' poverty stricken citizens) is brilliant social engineering.

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Old March 9, 2014, 07:28 PM   #9
Brian Pfleuger
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He describe the test and I'm pretty sure I could pass it today without any training.
I've never known that NOT to be the case.

I recall the NY Hunter's Safety Course. Stupidest class I ever took... I thought. I got a 100% on the test, no one else in the class did.

NY Bow Hunters Safety Course.... amounted to "wear a safety harness", use sharp broadheads and here's a blood tracking lesson.

Broome County, NY required handgun permit course, amounted to the Four Rules explained 16 different ways and 15 minutes of an ADA explaining why we don't need to carry guns because Broome County isn't dangerous. Ended with 5 minutes of live fire, 15 rounds in 3 mags loaded with 5 each, shot from a distance of MAYBE 10 feet, everybody shot the same target. They didn't even care where/if you hit it, only that you were safe.

This is what we get from .gov.
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Old March 10, 2014, 01:21 AM   #10
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I expected nothing less from the yahoos in the capital. I agree, the course hours seem designed to just limit the amount of people who can obtain a license.

On the other hand, I don't mind any course on guns even though it may be silly or just a beginner type course.

I'm waiting for my brother and we will take it together. (I can use 8hrs from a prior course so not sure how that works?)
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Old March 10, 2014, 07:40 AM   #11
Luger_carbine
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So what fills the rest of the sixteen hours? Whatever the trainer wants to put in. AMAZINGLY the legislature did not have 16 hours worth of specific material they wanted the Illinois concealed carry permit holders to have
I do not think this is entirely true.

Here is the act:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...7&ChapterID=39

(430 ILCS 66/75)
Sec. 75. Applicant firearm training.

(b) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of completion of a firearms training course or combination of courses approved by the Department of at least 16 hours, which includes range qualification time under subsection (c) of this Section, that covers the following:
(1) firearm safety;
(2) the basic principles of marksmanship;
(3) care, cleaning, loading, and unloading of a concealable firearm;
(4) all applicable State and federal laws relating to the ownership, storage, carry, and transportation of a firearm; and
(5) instruction on the appropriate and lawful interaction with law enforcement while transporting or carrying a concealed firearm.


(c) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of certification by a certified instructor that the applicant passed a live fire exercise with a concealable firearm consisting of:
(1) a minimum of 30 rounds; and
(2) 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 rounds from a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the Department.
(d) An applicant for renewal of a license shall provide proof of completion of a firearms training course or combination of courses approved by the Department of at least 3 hours.
(e) A certificate of completion for an applicant's firearm training course shall not be issued to a student who:
(1) does not follow the orders of the certified firearms instructor;
(2) in the judgment of the certified instructor, handles a firearm in a manner that poses a danger to the student or to others; or
(3) during the range firing portion of testing fails to hit the target with 70% of the rounds fired.
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Old March 10, 2014, 07:47 AM   #12
Luger_carbine
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The State accepts the NRA Basic Pistol as fulfilling 8 hours, that doesn't cover:

Applicable State and federal laws relating to the ownership, storage, carry, and transportation of a firearm; drawing from concealment, understanding the Illinois "Safe Haven" provision, or appropriate and lawful interaction with law enforcement while transporting or carrying a concealed firearm.

You might make a case that it all could be covered in 8 hours in some kind of modified NRA BP+ course. But if you make the assumption that everything in NRA BP must be taught to Illinois applicants, and the NRA BP is an 8 hour course, then the other stuff obviously takes the students past a normal 8-hour day's worth of training.
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Old March 12, 2014, 07:49 PM   #13
Prof Young
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Luger_Carbine - Thanks

Luger_Carbine:
Thanks for the information. I actually feel a little better now and will be expecting content in those areas when I take the course.

Live well, be safe
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Old March 13, 2014, 07:29 PM   #14
mack59
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Be sure to get the full training time, the state is looking to crack down on some instructors that are letting people do only a few of the 16 to 8 hours and then give out certificates.

I had 8 hours credit from prior training for my Florida CCW and just did an 8 hour class that lasted 8 hours. The shooting part was easy - large B-27 target at 5, 7, and 10 yards.

Not counting ammo or the gun or gas - it cost me 230 dollars - for the training and the state license fee.
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Old March 13, 2014, 08:40 PM   #15
Luger_carbine
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I thought the Florida course could only count toward 4 hours of the Illinois 16.
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Old March 13, 2014, 08:49 PM   #16
mack59
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Yes the Florida permit is only good for 4 hours credit. To fully explain - in the process of getting my Florida permit I completed the NRA in the home protection course - which is good for 8 hours.
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Old March 17, 2014, 09:21 PM   #17
Armed_Chicagoan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike38
Day one (8 hours) will cover handgun handling cleaning and proper storage, laws, etc. Day two will be an overview of day one, then get instructed on what to expect at the range for qualification. If you are the first one to shoot for qualification, and pass, you can go home. Your actual total time will be 12-13 hours, but the training report sent to the state will say 16 hours. So, volunteer to be first on the range, and go home early.
I wouldn't push that too far... Gun instructors lose certification after students report too-short training:
Quote:
Ninety-eight students certified by the instructors did not get the full 16 hours of training required by the state to carry a hidden handgun in public, police stated in a news release.
You don't want to end up like those 98 who will now be denied and have to pay another $150 to reapply on top of paying for more training.
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Old March 18, 2014, 01:18 PM   #18
Gary L. Griffiths
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You don't want to end up like those 98 who will now be denied and have to pay another $150 to reapply on top of paying for more training.
At least they weren't arrested and charged with felony carrying a concealed weapon because they had invalid licenses! I wouldn't put that past some IL jurisdictions!
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