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Old February 26, 2014, 03:51 PM   #1
Sandman_Actual
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What is considered "unconcealed"

My son lives at my house in PA and he just turned 18, he wants to open carry in public, which is legal here, but you must be 21 (and have a CCW permit) to carry concealed. How can he legally carry and/or transport it in a vehicle in an Unconcealed manner.

In other words, does it have to be locked in a case and unloaded, or are there other stipulations that apply like where it must be located.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Last edited by Sandman_Actual; February 26, 2014 at 03:57 PM.
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Old February 26, 2014, 04:01 PM   #2
ghbucky01
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In my opinion,

I would call your local law enforcement and ask them, rather than risk your son running afoul of the law because of bad advice from a random internet person.
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Old February 26, 2014, 04:01 PM   #3
MandolinMan
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You might check out this website:http://www.handgunlaw.us/

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Old February 26, 2014, 04:10 PM   #4
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this may be a good source of info

http://www.pafoa.org/law
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Old February 26, 2014, 05:37 PM   #5
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That is good info. This should help some people out!
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Old February 26, 2014, 06:15 PM   #6
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Sandman, the problem with calling your local PD is, it all depends on who answers. One officer, anti-gun, says one thing, the other, pro-carry, says something else. And lots of officers don't really know the law.
Look up the state statues, or talk to the local DA. Whatever they say, ask for it in writing.

For example, my wife had to go to California. She got on the CHP web site, and they had the exact rules, which she printed out and has with her!
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Old February 26, 2014, 06:23 PM   #7
jimbob86
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Quote:
I would call your local law enforcement and ask them, rather than risk your son running afoul of the law because of bad advice from a random internet person.
IME, Local LEO advice is worth exactly what you paid for it...... and less than that in some cases.....

When our CHL was new, it lacked pre-emption of local ordinances ...... and the next town over had a law against CCW ..... a check with a local PD officer and then a CSO deputy gave me two different answers, neither of which jived with what case law I could find ......

In practice, open carry was defined by officer discretion .... It was what the LEO said it was, when he felt like saying it.

Our CHL law has been fixed since then..... OC is still legal, but often invites confrontation with some LEOs ...... use with care.
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Old February 26, 2014, 06:30 PM   #8
power5
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In my stata, ccw was needed for a loaded gun in a car. otherwise it has to be separate from the ammo and out of reach of any passengers.
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Old February 26, 2014, 08:23 PM   #9
ClydeFrog
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Guns; ages....

PA does allow open carry but I think there are some restrictions re; motor vehicles, age, etc.
As noted, Handgunlaw.us is a good source. Another choice if you or your armed son travel often is the latest www.gunlawguide.com edition(2014).
I'm not a lawyer or a sworn PA law enforcement officer but I think you can't transport loaded firearms in a motor vehicle(open carry) without a valid CCW(either from PA or a state PA recognizes).
If your son is under 21 or does not have a CCW then he might not be able to travel with loaded handguns.
I'd add that PA state laws do not have any restrictions or laws re; college campuses/university property.
In 2013, I went on the property in CUP(Clarion) & IUP(Indiana PA) with no problems. I had my M&P .45acp compact in a SERPA.

FWIW; I think PA allows active duty & reserve US armed forces(under 21) to carry concealed with a license. Other US states have military laws too for service members who want to carry a weapon on leave or off duty.
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Old February 26, 2014, 08:32 PM   #10
Urban_Redneck
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Open carry without a LTCF, in PA is a pain in the arse.
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Old February 27, 2014, 03:10 AM   #11
riverratt
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I live in ky, we are an open carry state as well, called kentucky state police hq and they told me that you must have an unobstructed view o the firearm. They went on to explain that even your shirt only covering the grip was in violation of the law. In your vehicle it was left to the officers descretion as to what was in plain sight and the only safe place was in the glovebox, with or without being locked.

I tried open carry for a wile but was always being followed by the police. I also had one guy wile in line at the grocery store reach down and grab it in my holster? No he didnt try to pull on it just touch it? Dont know what that was about but anyway im in the process of getting my permit now, open carry just wasnt worth the hastle.

I would deffenetly check with local laws first.
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Old February 27, 2014, 03:38 AM   #12
JimmyR
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I did some looking around through reputable sites for PA laws, and the best, most concise summary was on the NRA ILA page for PA.


In Short: I see nothing about open carrying under age 21. From my readings, you must be eligible for a license to exercise that right, meaning all the restrictions remain. He may posess the firearm once he is 18, but may not carry it.


Second, in order to carry the firearm in the car at all, it must fit under one of the statutory exceptions, the most likely (for him would be:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NRA ILA
(2) when engaged in target shooting or while going to or from shooters’ places of assembly or target practice, provided the firearm is unloaded and the ammunition is carried in a separate container;
(4) to carry an unloaded and securely wrapped firearm from place of purchase to one’s home or place of business, to or from a place of repair, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another, or from one’s home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, to recover stolen property, or to a location to which the person has been directed to surrender firearms or back upon return of the surrendered firearm;
(5) to carry while lawfully hunting or fishing or going to the place of hunting or fishing, provided one has a hunting or fishing license and a Sportsman’s Firearm Permit;
(8) by any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person’s name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.
Personally, if I were to be in his shoes, the best bet would be to leave the gun at home unless he is going to the range, and if the firearm is in the car, have it locked up securely and out of arms reach.
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Old February 27, 2014, 09:20 AM   #13
ClydeFrog
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Holsters; open carry...

I've had sidearms & guns since I was about 19. I've never had any weapon retention problems or gun grabs while doing armed work or while OCing.
If I did open carry more(it's not allowed for gun owners where I live), Id use a level II type security holster. Weapon retention would be more important to prevent grabs or accidents.
I once had my Ruger GPNY .38spl slide out of a Blade-tech holster(cross draw) & hit the pavement.
Not good!
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Old March 2, 2014, 09:27 PM   #14
dajowi
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Law enforcement is a terrible source for legal advice. If you want to know what the exact laws in your state are, go to your state's revised statutes.
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Old March 2, 2014, 09:43 PM   #15
ClydeFrog
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I agree....

I would agree with the last post.
To get a gun law guide or to check the state-local statues is smart.
I'd add that a CCW license holder or gun owner should check these sites or gun laws often. State AGs & elected leaders change these statues or agreements many times.
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Old March 7, 2014, 07:38 PM   #16
kilimanjaro
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Not only go to the statutes, have your attorney tell you what they mean. He will probably talk to the local Prosecutor as well, just to see what he says they mean.

Could save your son from a major legal issue.

He might want to wait until he is 21, glovebox carry in an unattended vehicle is inviting a problem. Better to carry concealed on the person, I believe.
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Old March 7, 2014, 11:10 PM   #17
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In PA your limited as to where you can transport a short gun to and from.
to the range. to the gunsmith, to the LEO to turn it in. to an FFL to sell it. to go hunting. you must transport it directly there and back with no stops.

essentially without a license you can't just carry it around in any condition. you can't even take it to your friends house to show it to them.

The answer is: you can't. if you can't walk there you can't transport it.
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Old March 8, 2014, 12:38 PM   #18
Sierra280
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Definitly talk to the local DA or a lawyer. Law enforcement, is just that. They enforce the laws their boss (DA) tells them to enforce, individual LEO's don't really ever seem to know the laws (or constitutional rights for that matter).
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Old March 9, 2014, 12:13 AM   #19
cheezhed
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I would go to opencarry.org to see if info could be obtained about Pennsylvania.
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