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Old February 20, 2014, 02:16 AM   #26
TheRaskalKing
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ALWAYS in a holster for me.

I have very strong thoughts against carrying with an empty chamber, I agree with whoever said "an empty chamber is an empty gun." So, my priority then becomes protecting that trigger/trigger guard.

They can be had for pretty cheap, keeps the gun properly oriented, and don't really add much bulk.
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Old February 20, 2014, 07:19 AM   #27
Kreyzhorse
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Heavy double action trigger or not, keep it in a pocket holster. It's the safe thing to do not only for yourself but any one who may happen to be around you.
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Old February 20, 2014, 11:56 AM   #28
lostinthewoods
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Pants pocket carry, holster. Jacket pocket, no holster. Nothing else in that pocket
This way you can get at least one shot before it jams. Just remember every time you turn around this way you are covering someone with a loaded weapon.
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Old February 20, 2014, 01:02 PM   #29
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Heavy double action trigger or not, keep it in a pocket holster. It's the safe thing to do not only for yourself but any one who may happen to be around you.
I disagree. I cant see a DA trigger engaging itself in the pocket under any circumstances. Stick a DA gun in your pocket, and through the jeans material see if you can pull that trigger and drop the hammer, you wont be able to. If one wants to make the argument you can shoot yourself while drawing, well the same could be said when drawing from a holster, so I don't buy that either. There is being safe, and then there is being overly cautious. I understand some people want to protect their gun from lint and such, or like how a holster breaks up lines or keeps the gun in place, but don't tell me a 8-10lb trigger is going to magically go off on it's own because of the absence of a pocket holster. If pocket guns were not meant to be carried without holsters, they would not purposely have long heavy triggers. With that being said, I agree what others have said and don't keep anything else in the same pocket as the gun.

Last edited by Dragline45; February 20, 2014 at 01:15 PM.
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Old February 20, 2014, 02:58 PM   #30
eldermike
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Carrying a gun without a round in the chamber is a terrible idea because you can't draw and fire with one hand.
Yep, this is true but like I said, I accept that. But also consider that someone who gets hold of my gun is not going to shoot me with it. For every reason you carry with one in the chamber there is another reason to learn to rack the gun on draw even if it takes two hands. If you are so close to trouble that having a round in the chamber is your only salvation then you might not be the one that ends up with the gun.
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Old February 20, 2014, 03:13 PM   #31
Dragline45
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But also consider that someone who gets hold of my gun is not going to shoot me with it.
Also consider that when you get a hold of your own gun you may not shoot them with it either. It takes two hands to rack a slide. If someone gets the drop on you, you have no way to defend yourself while you draw, rack, and fire. If you had a round chambered, you could use your free hand to fend off an attack long enough to draw and fire your pistol. You are far more likely to to get your gun taken from you in that it will take you more time, both hands, and all your attention to draw and rack the slide. In that time, the other person has ample opportunity to strike you and grab your pistol from you.

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For every reason you carry with one in the chamber there is another reason to learn to rack the gun on draw even if it takes two hands.
If that was the case, then why do 100% of firearm instructors recommend against carrying without a round chambered. There is not one reputable, or probably non-reputable firearms instructor who advocates to carry without a round chambered. Guns were meant to be carried with a round chambered, there is no reason not to, not one.

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If you are so close to trouble that having a round in the chamber is your only salvation then you might not be the one that ends up with the gun.
I don't get your logic here at all. If you are so worried about having your gun taken and used against you, get some force on force training, or don't carry at all.

Last edited by Dragline45; February 20, 2014 at 03:23 PM.
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Old February 20, 2014, 05:37 PM   #32
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Dragline45, where I don't agree with you on the pocket holster that's your choice, your gun, and your pocket. My mileage may differ.
But as to carrying with a loaded chamber I think slide racking ninja moves are for Hollywood. If someone fears the loaded chamber of the gun they carry, maybe they shouldn't carry at all.
Slid racking practice is far different than an actual stressful situation. Under stress the slide could not be fully racked leaving an empty gun. No matter how much practice, a hand could slip off the slide. Or under stress and the need for quick response the trigger could be pulled as the slide is racked, or micro seconds later causing the gun to discharge in a direction unsafe for bystanders. So many things that are presumed in practice can go wrong in a real life stressful situation.
As far as not being in a situation that allows the time to rack the slide, it's a fantasy to believe that evil can't happen any where, any time.
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Old February 21, 2014, 07:32 AM   #33
Kreyzhorse
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I disagree. I cant see a DA trigger engaging itself in the pocket under any circumstances
I respect your opinion and agree that a gun left alone will simply not just "go off".

That said, there are numerous examples of guns just "going off" that appear to be the result of either direct or indirect human interaction. Items in pocket, keys, whatever are examples of indirect human interaction.

I simply find it prudent to carry in a holster no matter how slim the odds may be of having a ND.
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Old February 21, 2014, 08:56 AM   #34
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Also consider that when you get a hold of your own gun you may not shoot them with it either. It takes two hands to rack a slide. If someone gets the drop on you, you have no way to defend yourself while you draw, rack, and fire. If you had a round chambered, you could use your free hand to fend off an attack long enough to draw and fire your pistol. You are far more likely to to get your gun taken from you in that it will take you more time, both hands, and all your attention to draw and rack the slide. In that time, the other person has ample opportunity to strike you and grab your pistol from you.
I have good news to report here: I have two hands, so no worries there.

It takes no attention to rack a slide if you know how. It's much like cocking a revolver hammer on draw, its what you do without thinking about it. I have carried guns my whole life and so far it's never been an issue. I have never missed a deer because I had to rotate a bolt or missed a bird because I had to close a double gun and I have never fumbled a slide rack. And I don't carry guns with a mechanical mechanisim between me and shooting my foot off.

If I need a gun, I got one, if I need it loaded, I'll load it. That's how it is with me.
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Old February 21, 2014, 09:29 AM   #35
Derbel McDillet
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I have good news to report here: I have two hands, so no worries there.
You may not have two hands available while you're parrying or deflecting an attack with your support hand, your support hand/arm is injured, or an adversary has hold of your support hand/arm.

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It takes no attention to rack a slide if you know how. It's much like cocking a revolver hammer on draw, its what you do without thinking about it. I have carried guns my whole life and so far it's never been an issue.
So how often DO you train to quickly draw your gun from your pocket, rack the slide and shoot? Is this how you train with your pocket gun all the time?

In addition, training under realistic force-on-force conditions reveals to you what you can and cannot do - if your equipment and methods will actually work under stress.

It's never been an issue if you've never actually trained to do it under realistic conditions. While intellectually you may know what to do - under stress you may fail to do it (and this is quite common). The effects of stress on your mental and physical performance in a life or death situation can be unpredictable.
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Old February 21, 2014, 10:16 AM   #36
eldermike
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You may not have two hands available while you're parrying or deflecting an attack with your support hand, your support hand/arm is injured, or an adversary has hold of your support hand/arm.
I am not as young as I once was but still in good shape. I don't think that drawing a gun while in hand to hand combat is going to work out for you as well as it works in theory. That idea has it's own set of problems. For that purpose I was taught how to fight and how to run and when to use one or the other of these skills.

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So how often DO you train to quickly draw your gun from your pocket, rack the slide and shoot? Is this how you train with your pocket gun all the time?
Every time I am at the range. However, I have taught the wife how to carry a chambered round in her carry gun because she can't rack a slide well.

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In addition, training under realistic force-on-force conditions reveals to you what you can and cannot do - if your equipment and methods will actually work under stress.

It's never been an issue if you've never actually trained to do it under realistic conditions. While intellectually you may know what to do - under stress you may fail to do it (and this is quite common). The effects of stress on your mental and physical performance in a life or death situation can be unpredictable.

I have been stressed. I understand.
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Old February 21, 2014, 10:24 AM   #37
Rifleman1776
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My LCP is almost always in my hip pocket with a handkerchief. The hankie helps hide the 'print' of the pistol. I carry chambered. Those pocket pistols (I also have two .22s, a Walther style and a Beretta 21A) are very hard to rack. My wife simply cannot do it and it is not easy for me. Being available and ready is my theory. Have it ready. Each to his own.
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Old February 21, 2014, 11:30 AM   #38
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Eldermike: You've chosen to carry without a round in the chamber. You accept the drawbacks, and that's OK. But don't pretend that it's even remotely equal to carrying with a round chambered; carrying without a round in the chamber is not recommended by any firearms instructor I've ever come across or even heard of. Also, don't pretend there's not a significant drawback to needing two hands to draw your weapon; whether fighting off an attacker, opening a door, or just carrying something; there are a lot of times where your other hand might not be free.

Carrying without a round in the chamber makes you feel safer. Fine. But the drawback is that you've severely handicapped your ability to protect yourself unless you have both hands free.
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Old February 21, 2014, 12:50 PM   #39
eldermike
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Eldermike: You've chosen to carry without a round in the chamber. You accept the drawbacks, and that's OK. But don't pretend that it's even remotely equal to carrying with a round chambered; carrying without a round in the chamber is not recommended by any firearms instructor I've ever come across or even heard of. Also, don't pretend there's not a significant drawback to needing two hands to draw your weapon; whether fighting off an attacker, opening a door, or just carrying something; there are a lot of times where your other hand might not be free.

Carrying without a round in the chamber makes you feel safer. Fine. But the drawback is that you've severely handicapped your ability to protect yourself unless you have both hands free.
Never said it was better, never said it was the best way. I only said it's what I do and I gave my reasons. Also, I have never met all firearms instructors so I can't refute your claim that all of them teach one single way to carry. I'll take your word for it but it has not changed my mind.
Pulling a gun in the throws of hand to hand combat is something you would need to try yourself, not hear from someone but actually try it. I can tell you that it's not going to be as easy as you think. And it's not going to be decided on who owns that gun until you get the job done. I will give you a hint: A gun in a fist fight belongs to the strongest man no matter who is wearing it.
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Old February 23, 2014, 07:37 PM   #40
Dragline45
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I have good news to report here: I have two hands, so no worries there
Both of your hands need to be free to use them. Racking a slide requires both, therefor you give up your ability to protect yourself while drawing and racking.

Quote:
Pulling a gun in the throws of hand to hand combat is something you would need to try yourself, not hear from someone but actually try it. I can tell you that it's not going to be as easy as you think.
If the act alone of drawing a gun in a stressful situation is as difficult as you claim, then drawing and racking the slide will be that much more difficult. There are 0 benefits to your methods and dozens of drawbacks.

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A gun in a fist fight belongs to the strongest man no matter who is wearing it.
Strongest should be replaced with smartest. Technique and ability to act in accordance trumps pure strength. After years of wrestling, the one thing I learned was that strength only gets you so far, it is your technique, training, and a little bit of luck that comes through when you need to get the job done.

Last edited by Dragline45; February 23, 2014 at 07:55 PM.
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Old February 23, 2014, 07:44 PM   #41
MJFlores
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In a holster always,,,it's safer, and keeps the gun cleaner and free of pocket lint. I've tried several hosters and none of them impressed me until I tried a Galco horse hide pocket holster. Now, the Galco is all I'll ever use.
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Old February 24, 2014, 09:41 AM   #42
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I thought of this thread this weekend when my car alarm went off. I had the keys in my pocket while I was loading the car for a kayak trip and something I was carrying bumped the panic button on the key fob. Stuff in pockets gets bumped. My car keys don't need a holster, but a pocket pistol does, IMO.
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Old February 24, 2014, 02:31 PM   #43
eldermike
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Strongest should be replaced with smartest. Technique and ability to act in accordance trumps pure strength. After years of wrestling, the one thing I learned was that strength only gets you so far, it is your technique, training, and a little bit of luck that comes through when you need to get the job done.
Intresting, I was taught boxing as a young man. Evaluate - Implement - overcome

It's not going to be easy to show/prove a life or death situation when you shoot someone that is hand to hand fighting you. And if they already have a gun drawn (not a fighting situation as in my first comment) your carry condition is of no use to you unless you have a death wish.

Bad things happen quickly. Luck will play a bigger role in how things work out than all the prep. combined. The best defense is to be aware of where you are and how to use your surroundings to gain an advantage.

Being ready to shoot someone in the blink of an eye is not a solid plan IMHO.
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Old February 24, 2014, 03:50 PM   #44
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But also consider that someone who gets hold of my gun is not going to shoot me with it.
But much more likely to get it from you while you're fiddling around racking the slide.

Quote:
I have never fumbled a slide rack.
While your heart is pounding out of your chest in the high stress situation of being attacked?

Quote:
If I need a gun, I got one, if I need it loaded, I'll load it
If you have an empty gun when you need a loaded one, you may not have time to make the difference.

Quote:
I don't think that drawing a gun while in hand to hand combat is going to work out for you as well as it works in theory
But has a much better chance of working out than trying to rack a slide at the same time.

Quote:
Bad things happen quickly.
And racking a slide lessens the time to respond.

It's your gun. your time, and your life. If you want to carry an empty gun, as you said, on you will go.
Just points for others to think about if they consider carrying something as safe to carry with a round in the chamber as an LCP.
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Old February 24, 2014, 04:29 PM   #45
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This round-in-the-chamber argument isn't one we should even be having. When you carry a gun without a round in the chamber you are less-prepared to defend yourself with that gun. Period. To argue anything else is asinine. However, if you accept that and you still want to carry that way to make yourself feel better, go right ahead.
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Old February 25, 2014, 02:31 AM   #46
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I carry an LCP without a holster all the time. Nothing else goes in that pocket.
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Old February 25, 2014, 06:08 AM   #47
Primses
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I have the LCP. I'm an average-size guy and I can comfortably pocket carry it with a pocket holster in relaxed or loose fit jeans, not skinny jeans. My 442 pushes the boundaries of pocket carry for me. The LC9 is considerably larger than the LCP. I've checked it out a bunch of times in person and can't see comfortably pocket carrying it unless you're a big dude.
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Old February 26, 2014, 04:21 PM   #48
eldermike
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I just don't have enough fear in me to live cocked and locked. I like my methods.
I am not selling them to anyone.
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Old February 26, 2014, 09:25 PM   #49
Derbel McDillet
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I just don't have enough fear in me to live cocked and locked.
It's a matter of readiness and responsiveness not "fear".

Kinda like believing you're gonna have time and opportunity to put on your seat belt in the moments just before another motorist unexpectedly crashes into you.

But it's your life and your choice. Good luck!
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Old February 27, 2014, 08:45 AM   #50
eldermike
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It's a matter of readiness and responsiveness not "fear".

Kinda like believing you're gonna have time and opportunity to put on your seat belt in the moments just before another motorist unexpectedly crashes into you.

But it's your life and your choice. Good luck!
That analogy fails. I suppose with that thought you should sleep with a fire extinguisher with the pin pulled? Right? Never eat fish without someone trained in the heimlich and always carry a defibulator with a fully charged battery.

So what is it you are ready for?
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