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Old February 26, 2014, 12:25 AM   #76
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny 1954
a 20 ga does significant damage without the worry of over penetration through walls
This is only partially correct: Yes, a 20 ga. shotgun is very effective; but, just like a 12 gauge, it has problems with over-penetration.

The myth that a shotgun won't over-penetrate is just as incorrect as the myth that a .223 will over-penetrate. Buckshot zips through interior walls like crazy, and smaller loads aren't much better; at close home-defense ranges even birdshot is clumped together enough that it will over-penetrate.

If you're worried about over-penetration inside your house, a shotgun is the last gun you should be using.
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Old February 26, 2014, 07:51 AM   #77
2damnold4this
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A 20 gauge also recoils much harder than a .223/5.56.
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Old February 26, 2014, 08:15 AM   #78
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1. Something similar to what they have used before. Familiarity helps with using a firearm.
2. something in the same caliber as there handgun. They are more likely to have ammo if it is all the same.
3. Something they think is cool. More likely to practice with a gun you like
4. Something with cheep ammo. Practice more for less money
5. Something fun. If the gun is fun for the owner to shoot they will practice more
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Old February 26, 2014, 03:02 PM   #79
2damnold4this
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Quote:
Something similar to what they have used before. Familiarity helps with using a firearm.

That's true. Someone who has hunted rabbits with their shotgun for years would be well served using that gun for home defense. Someone who shoots cowboy action matches with an 1873 replica lever rifle might be fine using that for home defense.


Pump shotguns have a lot going for them. Low cost and power are two big advantages. But for someone new to shooting who is only getting a gun for home defense, I think a semi auto rifle would be the easiest firearm to learn.
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Old February 28, 2014, 10:54 AM   #80
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When it comes to HD shotguns, I like the .410. Easy on recoil, and the new SD ammo hits hard. Unless shotgun sports like clays, hunting, or 3-Gun are in the immediate future, the .410 pump or semi-auto will do just fine.
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Old February 28, 2014, 07:13 PM   #81
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If you people wish to convince me that a shotgun has the same power to penetrate as a 223/5.56, how about giving me a you tube example?

Yes shotgun pellets can go through drywall. Will they go through the neighbors house?
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm has some penetration tests. With a 223. The bullet went through twelve 3/4" pine boards. Tell me about a 20ga, shotgun round, (other than maybe a slug), that will do that. If your bullet misses your target, or goes through it, you have an uncontrollable situation. The more powerful the round, the more liability you have.

Last edited by DannyB1954; February 28, 2014 at 07:38 PM.
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Old February 28, 2014, 08:16 PM   #82
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DannyB1954, that video you linked is using FMJs. No one should use FMJs for home defense. Here's a test that shows a JHP or JSP .223 round penetrates less through interior walls than handgun or shotgun loads:

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

And here's another test:

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?opt...d=15&Itemid=26
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Old February 28, 2014, 09:19 PM   #83
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Quote:
No one should use FMJs for home defense.
If you live on Social Security and have little money for $2 bullets then yea, FMJ is all they can afford IF they are lucky enough to afford a gun.

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Old February 28, 2014, 09:54 PM   #84
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyB1954
The more powerful the round, the more liability you have.
That's not necessarily true; in fact, often the opposite is true. Super-fast rounds often fragment much faster than slower rounds, and the resulting pieces lose velocity much more quickly. This is why .223 hollowpoints penetrate so much less than shotgun or handgun loads. It also helps that the .223 is a small bullet.

It's similar to the results the Mythbusters had when they tested how far various guns would shoot into water. They shot into a pool and discovered that the high-powered rifle rounds traveled the shortest distance into the water due to violent and rapid fragmentation, whereas the handgun rounds would stay intact and travel a lot father. So if you decide to dive underwater to avoid being shot, a 9mm is going to go a lot deeper than a .50 BMG round.
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Old March 31, 2014, 09:23 AM   #85
Glenn E. Meyer
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A touch of a revival. Yesterday, we had a mixed match - handgun, handgun + rifle, or classic three gun.

A nice newbie young man or two were trying out 12 gauge pumps.

Things I noticed:

1. They did miss quite a bit shooting birdshot at steel. At three gun distances, they shoot in front, left or right. Thus, the idea that you can't miss - well, we know that wasn't true.

2. Manipulation was so very slow. Loading, second shots, etc.

Point is that for a novice, the shotgun isn't a wonder weapon.
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