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Old February 17, 2014, 10:39 PM   #26
Garycw
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Why do people spend $300+ on a pellet rifle?

You could always go with a dragons claw. If money wasn't a concern.
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Old February 18, 2014, 10:32 AM   #27
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Pcps seem to be pretty expensive to get started and maintain, $400-$500 for the rifle, another $300-400 for the tank.p, then refills. I got this right? is there something else that can keep 1-1.5 inches at 50yds, quietly and be =< then $300? How about that daisy jimro recommended?
The Daisy 853 I mentioned is a 10 meter competition rifle. If you want a 50 yard rifle that shoots tight you really need to go to a 22 caliber air rifle, and for that I would recommend a Crosman Maurader. Once again it is a PCP, but is fine for hunting.

I fill my PCP Challenger with a Hill Hand Pump. It is expensive, but there are cheaper hand pumps out there. With a Maurader you will get fewer shots per full tank.

If you don't mind learning the "artillery hold" to get best accuracy from a springer, there are a number of break barrel springers that fit the bill, including Stoeger, RWS, Gamo.

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Old February 18, 2014, 11:24 AM   #28
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I prefer side-cocking springs or pcp air rifles. I haven't had good luck with long term reliability in break barrel airguns. Anyhow, my dad's RWS mdl 48 .22 is awesome even with the crappy factory sights. With it's favorite pellets I can hit a 1" spinner every time (laying prone) from 30 yards. It's much more challenging standing. I hate shooting standing without a sling.
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Old February 18, 2014, 12:02 PM   #29
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This thread, along with a few more, make me wonder if TFL should add an air gun forum to the board. That, along with what seems like a lot of recent interest due to the shortage of ammo for powder burners. Especially 22 rimfire.
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Old February 18, 2014, 12:46 PM   #30
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There's nothing wrong with a break-barrel springer. The can be "hold-sensitive" but once you have them dialed and are familiar with how they recoil they can be plenty accurate. I have a Beeman C-1 that shoots way better than it should.

And yeah, and Airguns sub-forum would be a great idea.
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Old February 18, 2014, 02:59 PM   #31
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Was hoping to get a good peep or aperture sight. Will they not adjust high enough for 50yds ?
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Old February 18, 2014, 03:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Slopemeno View Post
There's nothing wrong with a break-barrel springer. The can be "hold-sensitive" but once you have them dialed and are familiar with how they recoil they can be plenty accurate. I have a Beeman C-1 that shoots way better than it should.

And yeah, and Airguns sub-forum would be a great idea.
I don't disagree that they are, or can be, accurate. My experience has been that things get loose and wear out faster on break barrels than on side-cocked or pcp air guns. I had a similar Beeman break-barrel that was good for a while but it eventually developed problems with barrel droop and had some accuracy issues later on, as well. I wasn't disappointed for $100, though. I would be disappointed if things like that happened on a Weierauch or RWS break-barrel.
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Old February 18, 2014, 04:40 PM   #33
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You can check out Pyramyd Air's article on: Scope shift and barrel droop

http:http://www.pyramydair.com/article/Sc...el_droop.../46

I like my recoiless side lever cocker --- RWS Model 54 --- because I can cock & load the rifle while it's resting on the bench, sitting atop my pedestal rest and bag; while the barrel's muzzle is pointed downrange at the backstop of our range. It is also very quiet as well, with an amazing lack of recoil vibration.
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Old February 18, 2014, 04:50 PM   #34
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Can a felon own an air rifle?
How many cities ban shooting an air rifle?
Is an air rifle cheaper to shoot than a center-fire? (I figure I can pump and cast with almost no material loss).

The high powered air rifles aren't quiet.
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Old February 18, 2014, 10:30 PM   #35
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Quote:
Can a felon own an air rifle?
How many cities ban shooting an air rifle?
Is an air rifle cheaper to shoot than a center-fire? (I figure I can pump and cast with almost no material loss).

The high powered air rifles aren't quiet.
Yes, air rifles are not considered firearms.
I don't know. Check your local city as it should be the one that matters to you.
An air rifle is much cheaper to shoot than a centerfire, plinking grade pellets can be had for 2 to 3 cents per, premium grade competition pellets 8 to 15 cents per shot.

The high powered air rifles are much much quieter than an equivalent centerfire or rimfire of the same caliber, with the possible exception of a 25 ACP if shot through a rifle.

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Old February 18, 2014, 10:49 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Jimro
The high powered air rifles are much much quieter than an equivalent centerfire or rimfire of the same caliber, with the possible exception of a 25 ACP if shot through a rifle.
I dunno, I'll put CCI Quiet-22®, 710 fps, shot out of a long barrel .22 rifle up against most air rifles in quietness. Mostly I just hear the hammer click and then the bullet smacks the target. If you shoot in your back yard, the bullet trap will make the most noise.
That's if you can actually obtain this ammo during these crazy times.

Another quiet backyard plinking round is a .22 Hornet case primer only, no powder, with a .22 air rifle pellet seated in the neck. This is good for about 350-400 fps with CCI small rifle primers and Crossman .22 Copperhead pellets. It's about as loud as dry firing the gun.
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Old February 18, 2014, 11:47 PM   #37
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Premium H&N wadcutters..177 pellets are $9.95 for 300.

My Beeman C-1 cost $135 back in 1988 as a "blem", so about the same investment as a 10/22. I've shot thousands of rounds though it while camping. No issues with the zero shifting at all over those 25+ years. I've had a Beeman SS-3 scope on it for while. Now it has a Williams receiver sight with no insert for a ghost ring effect. My C-1 isn't super quiet, but then again it has a 13" barrel. If you want to try something interesting, shoot a springer with hearing protection on- "Choinnng".

.22 CB Longs used to be my favorite, but they've gone up significantly in cost over the last 20 years. Right now CCI .22 CB Longs are about $8.99 for 100.

Some other great airgun deals- I bought a Beeman Hurricane back in 1983 and have shot untold tens of thousands of rounds through it. I'd probably rate it as my best shooting investment ever. It's definitely time for some new springs and seals, but that's easy work.

I picked up three Predom Lucznik's (a Walter LP-53 copy) from Century for $75.00 total, shipped. They shoot great, and are surprisingly well made for Eastern Block stuff.
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Old February 19, 2014, 12:47 PM   #38
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Wonder what Lewis & Clark paid for theirs?
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Old February 19, 2014, 04:05 PM   #39
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I dunno, I'll put CCI Quiet-22®, 710 fps, shot out of a long barrel .22 rifle up against most air rifles in quietness. Mostly I just hear the hammer click and then the bullet smacks the target. If you shoot in your back yard, the bullet trap will make the most noise.
That's if you can actually obtain this ammo during these crazy times.
Quiet-22 is rated at 68 decibels to the shooters ear, but most of the sound energy is directed away from the shooter, out the muzzle. The trigger "click" being much closer to the ear will sound louder.

A Gamo Whisper will be 60 decibels 5 feet in front of the muzzle, but the trigger mechanism itself will register 85 decibles, which is about the same as opening a can of soda in terms of "click" sound.

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Old February 19, 2014, 05:53 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Gunplummer View Post
Wonder what Lewis & Clark paid for theirs?
That would be interesting as it relates to today's value. That was a pretty hi-tech rifle for its time
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Old February 20, 2014, 10:33 PM   #41
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accuracy

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Sometimes spending a lot more for a "good" pellet gun doesn't justify the results. I regularly beat guys using $2000 Feinwerkbau air pistols at our matches using my $55 Crosman American Classic 1377C. They laugh at me pumping it between shots until I beat them (25 yards, standard NRA outdoor targets).
That doesn't work all the time - of course, you are correct about expense being wasted on some people and fine shots being able to work wonders with what might be considered less than optimal equipment.
The late Don Nygord won a National Championship shooting a Daisy such as yours.....but that was Don Nygord.
There are shooters upon whom the expense is not wasted. Feinwerkbau, Hammerli, Morini, Steyr, and Walther offer shooters more than snob appeal.
Do you regularly beat all the guys shooting high end guns? How often does your club hold real registered air pistol matches?
Air pistol is normally shot at 10 meters at the B40 target. The inner ten ring is 5mm in diameter.
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Old February 20, 2014, 11:53 PM   #42
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Old February 21, 2014, 12:17 AM   #43
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I buy airguns because they're inexpensive to shoot and because I can shoot them literally anywhere.

Because it's so easy and cheap to shoot my airguns, I shoot some of them more than I shoot my firearms.

I buy good quality airguns because it doesn't make sense to be spending a lot of time shooting low-quality airguns. I like my shooting to be enjoyable, and I don't get much enjoyment from poor accuracy, stiff, gritty triggers and rough, twangy internals.
Quote:
I regularly beat guys using $2000 Feinwerkbau air pistols at our matches using my $55 Crosman American Classic 1377C. They laugh at me pumping it between shots until I beat them (25 yards, standard NRA outdoor targets).

If you can hold it steady it shoots straight.
I have a Crosman 1377 and an FWB 65.

You are correct that the 1377 is very accurate--mine is. At least it is now. I had to replace the barrel because the one that came on the gun had a large pit (about 1/8 of an inch across) inside the bore near the muzzle. I also did a considerable amount of work on the trigger because the stock trigger was not only quite heavy, but it also had a lot of creep and a gritty pull.

The plastic breech loosened up after lots of shooting and it is now held in place by a hose clamp to prevent air from escaping.

I would say that in terms of raw accuracy, my 1377 (as modified) is not far from being as accurate as my FWB 65. But I can shoot my FWB a lot more accurately for the duration of a match because I can focus more on shooting and less on pumping.

The sights are also MUCH better on the FWB than on the 1377.
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Old February 21, 2014, 10:57 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post

The sights are also MUCH better on the FWB than on the 1377.
Pics please!
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Old February 21, 2014, 01:09 PM   #45
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You are correct that the 1377 is very accurate--mine is. At least it is now. I had to replace the barrel because the one that came on the gun had a large pit (about 1/8 of an inch across) inside the bore near the muzzle. I also did a considerable amount of work on the trigger because the stock trigger was not only quite heavy, but it also had a lot of creep and a gritty pull.
I work through the tough trigger, it's great training. My regular Bullseye gun is a DA revolver, so it's no big deal.

I'm sure I would do a little better score-wise with a high end FWB, but it's a more fun to do well with low end equipment, and easier on the wallet.

Quote:
Do you regularly beat all the guys shooting high end guns? How often does your club hold real registered air pistol matches?
We shoot it with NRA outdoor targets (after the regular Bullseye match), and most of the guys are accomplished shooters. I think my high score is 378/400 at 25 yards, the record at our club match is I believe 392. There is one guy with a premium gun who usually beats me, but 6-8 others who do not. Several show up only for the air pistol match, which is held once a month, and are quite serious about it (at least as indicated by their investment).
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Old February 21, 2014, 09:19 PM   #46
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I work through the tough trigger, it's great training.
It is, and I shot mine stock for some years before I did anything to it. I think that my early shooting experience, which mostly consisted of airguns with pretty rough triggers, helped me improve my technique.

But when I'm shooting for accuracy (as in a match) or for fun, I'd much rather have a nice trigger than a rough one. Since I can afford nice triggers now (or can modify them/have them modified to be nice) I do.
Quote:
...it's a more fun to do well with low end equipment, and easier on the wallet.
There is a certain appeal to demonstrating that the shooter is more important to the outcome than the equipment is. That said, you don't have to go all the way up to a FWB pistol to get a nice trigger or reduced cocking effort.

You might take a look at the Crosman 2300T. Pretty good reviews, has an adjustable trigger, decent sights & good sight radius, is CO2 powered (no pumping) and can be had for under $140 if you shop around.
Quote:
Pics please!
I don't have any decent pics of it. But it's a stock FWB 65.

Here are links to some pics that show the sights of someone else's FWB 65.

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com...0f9d140ded.jpg

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com...f7cb6f6bda.jpg

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com...f7cb6f6bda.jpg

The front sight width can be selected. The rear sight notch width and depth are adjustable. The rear sight elevation and windage have knobs with click adjustments.
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Old February 22, 2014, 06:20 AM   #47
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plinking

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Another quiet backyard plinking round is a .22 Hornet case primer only, no powder, with a .22 air rifle pellet seated in the neck. This is good for about 350-400 fps with CCI small rifle primers and Crossman .22 Copperhead pellets. It's about as loud as dry firing the gun.
neat idea. I use .223 Remington cases with 209 shotgun primers. I bore out the primer pocket with a (what??) a C drill iirc and set the pellets in the neck of the case with a long finishing nail (through the enlarged primer pocket)
Makes a pellet gun out of my rifle.
Pete
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Old February 25, 2014, 12:50 AM   #48
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No way I'd spend that little - I'm saving for a $3,000 Edgun Matador!

But to answer your question:

-cheap ammo
-legal to shoot in many city limits
-cheap ammo
-quiet
-cheap ammo

Did I mention the cheap ammo?
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Old February 25, 2014, 03:26 PM   #49
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airguns are pretty cool, you can mod them and are great for small game. If you keep an eye out you can pick up deals, i bought my first pcp direct from walmart, benjamin discovery and the pump for $300.

ive had nice spring style air rifles but once you go pcp its hard to come back. Some of the new guns in 25 and 30 cal shoot as flat as rimfires with almost as much power.
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Old February 25, 2014, 04:03 PM   #50
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When I was a kid, I had a crossman air rifle and at 33 feet I could pick off those little green army men in my backyard with it.

It was fun. Hell it would be fun right now. 300 bucks? No...but I've spentthat much money than that on a rimfire pistol people dilsike, so why should I say a 300 dollar air rifle is a no-no? I'd like to shoot one and see what it's like.
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