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Old February 12, 2014, 10:10 PM   #26
Snyper
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Quote:
Putting the hand in the pocket was a distraction to the bandit, leading the bandit to believe the victim was complying instead of preparing to fight back.
I know why he did it
I also know it gave him one less hand to fend off any attack.
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Old February 12, 2014, 10:29 PM   #27
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3/3/3 is simply a statistical average which will have merit to a certain degree but does not necessarily mean that every gunfight will fall within that average. Training 3/3/3 is just a drill and hopefully one of many. Even if a person only trains 3/3/3, it does not mean that they are incapable to acting outside that routine, we are adaptable beings after all.

It is flawed. Did you see what I posted? It is a stat from gunfights the good guys LOST.
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Old February 13, 2014, 12:18 AM   #28
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It is flawed. Did you see what I posted? It is a stat from gunfights the good guys LOST
A great many things that you see in training were developed as a result of failures...its called learning from your mistakes. There are many theories that encompass the 3-3-3 statistics and several schools consider it to have merit. Each man must decide for himself what he thinks danger looks like. 3-3-3 may have absolutely no meaning to some but in the spirit of this thread "trouble can come quickly", I think the concept is worth exploration.
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Old February 13, 2014, 06:35 AM   #29
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The 16-year-old, Deonta Dewight Mackey, was shot in the head and died at the scene, according to police. He lived in the 900 block of East 104th Street, about four blocks from where he died.

The sergeant was not injured.

Authorities said Mackey had 16 arrests on a rap sheet that went back to April 2008 when he was 10 years old.

His most recent arrest was last month after Chicago police say he robbed a woman of her cell phone on December 16, not far from the Citgo station, authorities said. That was his only robbery arrest.
Update on the Chicago gas station shooting.
16 arrests going back to age 10. I am glad the sergeant is ok and that no one else got hurt by this loose cannon.
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Old February 13, 2014, 07:51 AM   #30
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I wonder had the good guy NOT been LEO how this would have played out. First of all, being in Chicago, would they have hauled him off to jail for having an "illegal" weapon? And even if it had been in Anywhere, USA, how quickly would he be cleared to walk away?
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Old February 13, 2014, 01:56 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by pax
He won. That's all that matters, for him. But it's not all that matters for us, because sometimes luck happens too. Many people win encounters with criminals simply because of good luck. Not because they planned well or did good things, but simply because they were lucky. When you're looking for strategies and techniques to imitate, it is best to look for the ones that do not rely entirely on good luck.
Rather be lucky than good.
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Old February 13, 2014, 02:53 PM   #32
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"Do not count on luck in a gunfight. If you are fighting for your life with a handgun today, today is not your lucky day." -- Tom Givens

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Old February 13, 2014, 09:25 PM   #33
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Does anyone know what weapon the officer used or what self defense round?
thanks,
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Old February 13, 2014, 11:21 PM   #34
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"16 arrests going back to age 10".

This kid had 16 arrests on his record, starting at age 10, and was pulling armed robberies at age 16. (Where do you suppose he got the gun?)

It might sound cold, but this kid was born to die.

He would eventually have killed someone else, had he not been killed first.

All things considered, it's best the little predator is off the streets permanently.

Glad the Sergeant was not hurt, and hope he comes through the process untroubled.
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Old February 14, 2014, 08:33 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by pax
"Do not count on luck in a gunfight. If you are fighting for your life with a handgun today, today is not your lucky day." -- Tom Givens

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Your quote has nothing to do with what I said.
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Old February 14, 2014, 09:26 AM   #36
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Please read my whole post before jumping on my back. I read through all the posts, but I didn't find any mentioning this- the guy that got shot in the head point-blank did NOT die immediately!

I realize that what we see in movies is NOT what happens in reality. I know that people don't die from a single gun shot, even one right to the head. But, even though I know that, it was still pretty crazy to actually see it! The video of it actually made it sink in more.

I think that's an important thing to really understand and grasp, and we can incorporate that understanding into whatever training we all do
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Old February 14, 2014, 09:59 AM   #37
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Luck -

Louis Pasteur said, “Chance favors only the prepared mind."

Confucian precept: “Intense effort and discipline open every door”
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Old February 15, 2014, 12:31 AM   #38
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I can't see where he did anything wrong. He was in a very bad situation and came out on top.

His experiences working as a cop in a high-crime area definitely gave him an advantage. He's used to dealing with thugs and low-lifes of all sorts and didn't seem particularly rattled when they approached him.
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Old February 15, 2014, 01:10 AM   #39
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The gas pump is one of the highest anxiety triggers for me, lots of obstructions to good observation. I usually lock the pump and pace around. Noticed that the thug in the video made a fatal mistake (besides being a criminal in the first place). Once the officer appears to comply with his demands he lowers his weapon, gave the officer all the time he needed to draw and deliver a fatal shot. Complacency Kills, no matter what side of the law you're on.
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Old February 15, 2014, 07:30 AM   #40
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he lowers his weapon, gave the officer all the time he needed to draw and deliver a fatal shot
I noticed that too. Kraigwy has posted something similar where a person can act faster than a person can react. I don't remember exactly how he stated it but one of the things he wrote about was how a person holding you at gun point can be defeated by an armed person. The guy has to know what he is doing to draw and fire on an armed man and beat him.

I am glad the officer is ok. He read the situation pretty well and put the bad guy down.
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Old February 15, 2014, 09:30 AM   #41
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Given the video, I think most legally armed citizens would have gotten a pass on being charged with a crime. Of course, in Chicago, there's basically no such thing as legally armed, so the victim would at best be minus his stuff and at worst dead.

The officer obviously was prepared, but he was lucky too. What might have happened if the other two thugs had been armed -- or if the armed thug had just decided to shoot him and rob his body? I don't agree with the negatives on reaching into his pocket; misdirection is a great way to prevail. As several have said, action is always faster than reaction; if you can, get in the first shot and make it count.
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Old February 15, 2014, 11:05 AM   #42
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Reporting the shooting

In response to posts 5 & 6, this will be statistically reported as another death by handgun in Chicago.
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Old February 15, 2014, 12:31 PM   #43
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I noticed that too. Kraigwy has posted something similar where a person can act faster than a person can react.
The person acting has the initiative, they have already thought out their next steps and mentally prepared for the next series events, wheras the reacting person has to perform an OODA loop in fractions of a second. In short, the person with the initiative already has the Observing, Orienting, and Deciding parts of the process out of the way wheras the reacting person must perform all four while their opponent is only doing the Act part.

In this case the thugs were initially inside the officer's OODA loop, but when he appeared the comply they gave up the initiative and allowed him to come up with a plan and gain the initiative.
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Old February 15, 2014, 06:48 PM   #44
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It appears having his passenger door open kept one of the perps occupied and away from him long enough for him to react to the other Two. A blessing in disguise! Glad he is OK.
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Old February 17, 2014, 11:48 AM   #45
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I find it hard to believe that the Chicago Tribune resisted titling the article "Police shoot child during fundraising effort" or somesuch.

Glad the officer is ok, and very sorry that he was forced to have to take that action. That's not something I'd wish on anyone.
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Old February 26, 2014, 09:38 AM   #46
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I have watched this video several times, amazed.

I think the cop showed incredible expertise and coolness under pressure, not to mention cojones. We see fancy gunfights in movies, and I think we lose track of how difficult it is in the real world.

The cop chose his moment to act perfectly, and acted with lighting speed. He then covered the area, assessed that the threat was neutralized, removed the weapon from the crook's reach, and continued to stay alert. It looked more like a training video.

I have owned guns for many years, am a very good pistol shot, am big and strong, tend to be aware of my surroundings, and have a somewhat aggressive nature. But there is no way I could have come close to performing anywhere near as well as he did. (This may be motivation to get some intensive training.)

I was cheering the cop on. When he shot the guy, I was saying, "Yeah!" But when I saw the perp crawling on the ground, struggling for his last breaths, it got real serious, and a bit awful. Even when it's someone who deserves it, watching someone die is shocking, and harsh. I hear new or wanna-be gun owners talk about shooting a bad guy like it's an opportunity they are craving. I don't think they realize what a grave and terrible thing it is.

FWIW

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Old February 26, 2014, 07:32 PM   #47
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Does chicago have lockable pumps? I know I have been to some stations that do not. I usually stuff my gas cap into them someway. I also lock the pump on and am constantly looking around.

The cop turned into the person with the plan after pulling his gun. All 3 BG were then in that OODA loop coming up with a new plan. Even if they were armed, were not making an aimed shot on the officer. They are likely cowards (why they were not holding the gun) and would have done the same thing even with a gun in hand. If they had him in aim while he pulled his gun and shot #1, they still would have had a very small chance of hitting him once he started moving even at that distance.

If that was his service weapon I would assume its a .40. He must have had a glancing blow because that BG was alive for quite a while after point blank shot to the head. Too bad the video is mostly blurred in the above view for the whole confrontation and is edited from the building view.

I do not want to shoot anyone dead, and having a wounded BG die slowly would be worse, but I definitely want the near future of my life to be able to reflect on what happened, not only my family reflecting.
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Old February 27, 2014, 02:59 PM   #48
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I think it highlights the big difference in distances when using LEO vs. CCW shooting stats.

I may be wrong about this, but if I was a BG, I want to get as close to you as quick as possible. I'm less likely to play wild west, gun you down from the magical "7 yards" and then walk over and rifle through your pockets.

As a BG, my OTJ training teaches me to exploit what appears to be an opportunity and getting within bad breath distances helps me get the "tactical" advantage...especially if my target is unaware or pre-occupied with another task (pumping gas, texting, talking, etc.)
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Old February 27, 2014, 03:25 PM   #49
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Well one down 2 to go! He did a very good job!
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Old March 2, 2014, 12:20 PM   #50
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I admire his mindset. He was facing a drawn pistol. He chose to fight & took the shot that gave him the best chance of no return fire. Making decisions that fast in that bad of a situation is tough. He did well.
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