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Old February 19, 2014, 05:11 PM   #76
wayneinFL
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Would you be opposed to a two tier system for freedom of speech? Or religion? Or any other constitutional right?
I'm opposed to a one tier system. But if my other option is don't carry, I'll do what I have to do for now.

Since you're ideologically opposed to having to buy a permit to exercise a constitutional right, just give up the permit you have now, and refuse to carry. Otherwise, you're just as much a sellout as I am.
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Old February 19, 2014, 06:39 PM   #77
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No I'm not. I hate paying to practice any right. You openly say you "like" a tiered payment system because you could get what you need for now. If you could pay for what you needed, you'd probably not continue with what should be. I'm motivated to make the right change, not to settle for a compromise. It's not about ME and what I need. It's about what is right, and what we ALL should have. I think that's where we differ.
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Old February 19, 2014, 07:39 PM   #78
wayneinFL
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You openly say you "like" a tiered payment system because you could get what you need for now. If you could pay for what you needed, you'd probably not continue with what should be.
The idea that I will suddenly forget about politics is your assumption, based on a quote you pulled out of the context of my post. Read the rest of my post.

Quote:
It's not as good as nationwide constitutional carry- it's a stopgap measure- but it's a better stopgap measure than what we have now.
Stopgap, definition by Merriam Webster, emphasis mine:

Quote:
someone or something that is intended to be used for a short time and then replaced by someone or something better : a temporary substitute
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stopgap

The only point we differ on is that I am willing to accept a fee to practice a right now, and lobby to eliminate the fee in the future. You would rather accept a complete loss of that right until you can get it for free. And you really don't differ from me that far, because you are currently paying to exercise a right in Virginia.
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Old February 19, 2014, 09:41 PM   #79
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I can open carry in Virginia, and occasionally I do. I have my right without the need for any license at all. I do choose to have and pay for a conceal carry license as well, but I don't have to have it to carry in Virginia. Our tier one is constitutional carry. Our second tier is to pay to conceal. I don't like it, and like you, I work to get full constitutional carry. I don't want more (any) tiers.
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Last edited by noelf2; February 19, 2014 at 09:50 PM.
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Old February 21, 2014, 03:35 AM   #80
62coltnavy
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So tell me, Noel, as I am confused about this--what about the 1000' exclusionary zone of the gun Free School Zone Act? Here in California--aside from the fact that open carry is now banned--the act is enforced, and it is virtually impossible to open carry in public. What does Virginia do?
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Old February 21, 2014, 09:43 AM   #81
noelf2
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What does Virginia do?
The same rules for carry apply to conceal or open carry in Virginia. Just one requires a license. Our state laws say where we cannot carry. We cannot carry on school grounds unless we are in a car and have a CHP, and the gun is concealed, and we do not get out of the car (just dropping off a kid).

I have not heard of that act actually being "enforced" here. Others may know different.
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Old February 21, 2014, 10:38 AM   #82
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I have not heard of that act actually being "enforced" here. Others may know different.
The fact that a law may not be regularly enforced, or is enforced sporadically and capriciously, does not mean it won't be enforced actively tomorrow. The GFSZ law requires a permit issued by the state in which the school is located. That's one of the major problems with ALL reciprocity -- even what we currently think of as "good" reciprocity.
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Old February 21, 2014, 10:51 AM   #83
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The fact that a law may not be regularly enforced, or is enforced sporadically and capriciously, does not mean it won't be enforced actively tomorrow. The GFSZ law requires a permit issued by the state in which the school is located. That's one of the major problems with ALL reciprocity -- even what we currently think of as "good" reciprocity.
That's been one of the key points on this thread from the beginning? That federal reciprocity can't be enforced, and is ineffective. Are we actually going anywhere new here?
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Old February 21, 2014, 03:14 PM   #84
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VA now honors KS !!! State to state reciprocity gettin' better all the time...
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Old February 22, 2014, 06:47 AM   #85
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Congratulations, I'm happy for you. And reciprocity will keep going great for you until you get about 35 states, when it comes to a dead halt. Then you're in the same boat as FL, TX, UT, etc.
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Old February 22, 2014, 08:53 AM   #86
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I'm not so defeatist. There will be so much pressure on those remaining states from their citizens that it will be a matter of time. If the citizens actually don't want reciprocity, then my boat don't sail there anyway. Their loss
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Old February 25, 2014, 01:31 PM   #87
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It all sounds good at first, but I'm absolutely against it. People in states that requires 40 hours of gun safety training and hands on range fire testing might get upset that outsiders aren't obliged to endure the same level of assessment. In time, pressure would come from the states and federal government to "standardize" the requirements for carry. Do we really want the federal government to take this control? Since 2A is a constitutional right (unlike driving, which is only a privilege), all states need to enact constitutional carry.
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I'm also against it. I absolutely do not want the fed involved in any more gun legislation, period. Stop and look at what we have now. The fed gov't can't manage their budget, natural disasters, immigration, veterans benefits, health care, education and a truck load of other things to numerous to mention. Just leave the states alone and if people who live in those sates want CC they will get it. Believe it or not most manage it very well. And if they don't I have no reason to travel or live in those states.
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Old February 25, 2014, 11:09 PM   #88
xtphreak
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Somebody tell me one thing, just one, that the federal government got involved in that wasn't totally over regulated and totally screwed up.

The thing to remember here is guys, if you don't like the laws of the state that you're in, either effect change to the laws through the democratic process or move to a state that has laws that you agree with.
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Old February 26, 2014, 10:18 AM   #89
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Somebody tell me one thing, just one, that the federal government got involved in that wasn't totally over regulated and totally screwed up.
Spending money like no one else, and blaming it on a too low debt ceiling??? Lol



Yeah, I am all for states honoring concealed permits like DLs, however I think fed involvement would just be plain wrong... To me their involvement is quite well delineated in the 2A. What worries me more than anything about a federal regulation is the simple fact of the millions of constituents that congress represents as well as the billions of dollars in corporate backers etc. There are just far too many variables to have any kind of good outcome for either side, especially ours.
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Old February 26, 2014, 10:30 AM   #90
ClydeFrog
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True....

I agree with the last few posts. The same folks behind the FEMA response to Katrina(2005) & the more recent Healthcare.gov debacle are not going to roll out a "great" plan for CCW/concealed carry nationwide.

What was that popular quote from the Gipper?...
"The words most citizens fear most are; I'm from the federal government & Im here to help."

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Old February 26, 2014, 01:05 PM   #91
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Everyone's had a chance to make their argument, and there are some good ones. This one's beginning to drift, though, so let's close it before it goes too far off the reservation.
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