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Old February 10, 2014, 09:23 AM   #26
noelf2
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If he simply gets a hand slap and sent on his way, that would set a precedent for leniency for future forgetful carriers. Wouldn't that be a good thing?
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Old February 10, 2014, 09:45 AM   #27
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If he simply gets a hand slap and sent on his way, that would set a precedent for leniency for future forgetful carriers. Wouldn't that be a good thing?
Duno, does slapping hands and reducing the charges and the sentence for one, require the Law to do it for all? I don't think so.
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Old February 10, 2014, 09:52 AM   #28
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Duno, does slapping hands and reducing the charges and the sentence for one, require the Law to do it for all? I don't think so.
Yes, it is called "case law", and would be referenced to any judge by anyone's competent lawyer.
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Old February 10, 2014, 10:02 AM   #29
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Would a "no Billed" by a Grand Jury be "case law"?
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Old February 10, 2014, 10:21 AM   #30
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I think his beliefs are geared more towards ending gun violence & gang activity in the local schools/youth groups.
As if gang members would give a toot in a tornado about any gun law or stupid sign: they don't live by society's laws- they have their own "code"- "more of a set of guidelines, actually"- they'll "do what they gotta do" .....
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Old February 10, 2014, 11:08 AM   #31
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Would a "no Billed" by a Grand Jury be "case law"?
I doubt it. Case law is examined when one case is very similar to a (or several) previous case(s). No Billed is lack of sufficient evidence. You don't need previous cases lacking evidence to establish the fact that lacking sufficient evidence is a good reason to stop the show.
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Old February 10, 2014, 11:34 AM   #32
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Generally, it isn't "case law" unless it has been through an appeal. Simply plea bargaining to a misdemeanor doesn't help anyone but the defendant.
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Old February 10, 2014, 11:40 AM   #33
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Questionable judgement...

Is it just me, perhaps because I am an enthusiast, but has anyone actually "forgotten" they were wearing a gun? Seriously?

I don't mean, forgotten where you put it, or "forgot" you weren't supposed to have it in a certain place, but just "forgotten" you had it ON YOUR PERSON?

You carry it right, you carry it often, you carry it for a long time, over time, and you do get to the point where you are not aware of it every conscious moment, but you never "forget" you have it on.

or do you?

Perhaps the first step in the NY tactical drill is now
#1 Remember whether or not you have a gun.


If his grasp on reality is such that he can actually forget he's wearing a gun what the blazes is he doing in public office in the first place? perhaps he has simply been "forgetting" to read the laws he is supporting? Best he has direct deposit, so he won't forget to pick up his paycheck...

What will he do next? use his gun as a laser pointer?
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Old February 10, 2014, 11:47 AM   #34
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Generally, it isn't "case law" unless it has been through an appeal.
Case Law is simply the law as established by the outcome of former cases. Appealed or not.

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Is it just me, perhaps because I am an enthusiast, but has anyone actually "forgotten" they were wearing a gun?
Well I haven't. But if this guy can walk into a school, get caught wearing a gun, get arrested, and his only defense is "I Forgot". The outcome of his case would be interesting for future cases in that state. "I Forgot" could become as important a phrase as "I was in fear for my life".
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Old February 10, 2014, 12:04 PM   #35
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Is it just me, perhaps because I am an enthusiast, but has anyone actually "forgotten" they were wearing a gun? Seriously?
I doubt it happens.

The story said it was after hours. The doofus probably figured he could get away with breaking the law he helped pass.

He didn't and cried stupid...
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Old February 10, 2014, 12:17 PM   #36
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And now we get to find out if stupid is a good defense! Should be fun.
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Old February 10, 2014, 12:59 PM   #37
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For the children....

I, for 1, disagree.
1st; I do not know the guy or know what his motivations or politics are. Some members here seem able to make those judgements or shape those opinions quickly.
2nd; if he's charged with a felony(or multiple counts) then convicted he won't be able to carry any guns or ammunition legally so it's a moot point.
3rd; I agree it seems disingenuous or difficult to think the man did not know he had a concealed weapon on him but people get busted all the time bringing guns into airports, medical centers, government buildings, courts, etc.
Many of these armed citizens did in fact make honest mistakes & did not face felony charges.
I read a media item about a off duty sworn LE officer who was busted for being armed in a sports arena in Washington DC. Shouldn't the LE officer know the law or statue?
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Old February 10, 2014, 01:27 PM   #38
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I, for 1, disagree.
1st; I do not know the guy or know what his motivations or politics are. Some members here seem able to make those judgements or shape those opinions quickly.
His motivations don't matter. His behavior does. His behavior is not only illegal vis a vis a law he strongly supported, but he's now claiming to be ignorant of it! And at the same time using his position on the law to try to get away with breaking it? Surely you see the duplicity in this, do you not?


Quote:
2nd; if he's charged with a felony(or multiple counts) then convicted he won't be able to carry any guns or ammunition legally so it's a moot point.
He's not going to get charged with anything.

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3rd; I agree it seems disingenuous or difficult to think the man did not know he had a concealed weapon on him
That is ludicrous on its face. I find it astonishing you would even contemplate sympathizing with it.

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but people get busted all the time bringing guns into airports, medical centers, government buildings, courts, etc.
Sure, they make this claim all the time - and there may even be a grain of truth in some cases - I guess some people are foolish enough not to check the contents of bags they are taking to an airport. But this "excuse" doesn't work except for the rich, famous, and politically connected. It's not a legitimate defense.

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Many of these armed citizens did in fact make honest mistakes & did not face felony charges.
As stated above, it's generally, the rich, famous and politically connected who avoid prosecution, not the general citizenry.

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I read a media item about a off duty sworn LE officer who was busted for being armed in a sports arena in Washington DC. Shouldn't the LE officer know the law or statue?
Like many other LE officers might, he was probably expecting "professional courtesy". Just because he expected it doesn't mean he's entitled to it.
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Old February 10, 2014, 01:40 PM   #39
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Is it just me, perhaps because I am an enthusiast, but has anyone actually "forgotten" they were wearing a gun?
I haven't, but I take the act of carrying a lethal weapon seriously. It's surprising how many folks don't.

That said, none of us would receive any degree of leniency if we carried a gun into a school in New York. Quite the opposite. We'd be portrayed as dangerous vigilantes, and the system would go out of its way to "make an example" out of us.

This guy is going to get a pass because of nepotism, plain and simple. Unfortunately, that's nothing new in New York.
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Old February 10, 2014, 01:59 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Is it just me, perhaps because I am an enthusiast, but has anyone actually "forgotten" they were wearing a gun?
I have known some over the years to forget they had a firearm before trying to enter a restricted area, and others to forget to retrieve them from lock boxes when they leave. Same thing with people leaving a firearm sitting on top of the toilet tank in store bathroom. Known a few others to forget they had a firearm after being asked a few times, until they were searched incident to arrest. So it can and does happen for some people to forget they have a firearm in a holster on their person, and it happens that people forget to retrieve a firearm as well (bathroom toilet, your buddies car, house, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve4102
Would a "no Billed" by a Grand Jury be "case law"?
No because case law, as was already mentioned is generally set by an appeals court or higher, and while I am not sure on NY procedural law, in other states, a "No Bill" by one grand jury doesn't mean anything if the prosecutor really wants to push it. Depending on the state, it can be presented more than once to different grand juries. There is a debate as to how common this practice is, but it does happen.
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Old February 10, 2014, 03:16 PM   #41
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Post #38....

I disagree with a few of the points in post #38.
The State's Atty Office in my area just had a formal inquiry into the issue of too many people avoiding formal charges when caught packing heat in restricted areas. Are all those gun owners/license holders celebs or pro athletes or wealthy? No.
I think my remarks were misunderstood too; I honestly don't think the guy "forgot" he was wearing a loaded firearm when he went on school property. His claim might not be accepted(a point that to my knowledge has not been adjudicated in the courts).

CF
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Old February 10, 2014, 03:25 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by noelf2
If he simply gets a hand slap and sent on his way, that would set a precedent for leniency for future forgetful carriers. Wouldn't that be a good thing?
Not IMHO.

Condoning or encouraging arbitrary and capricious enforcement of laws is IMHO never a good thing. If a law is a bad law, it should be repealed, not sidestepped and circumvented when it's inconvenient to enforce it equally against violators who are purported to be "good people."
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Old February 10, 2014, 03:35 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Is it just me, perhaps because I am an enthusiast, but has anyone actually "forgotten" they were wearing a gun? Seriously?
I did once, sort of.

I was out on a series of errands, with a gazillion things on my mind. There was an envelope on the front seat of my car that I wanted to mail, but I wasn't sure if the weight was going to kick me up to needing extra postage, so I didn't just drop it in a mailbox.

My regular post office has no parking lot, so it's routine to park on the street, disarm and secure the gun in the car, enter the post office and transact my business, then get back in the car and reholster. On my errands itinerary, I happened to pass by a post office, so I pulled into their parking lot (behind the building), parked, grabbed my envelope, and headed for the door. I had opened the door when the enormity of what I was doing struck me like the proverbial bolt from the blue:

"Oh, [bleep]! I just parked my car is a post office parking lot and I just walked into a post office with gun strapped to my waist. LEMME OUTTA HERE!"

So, yeah -- I can see that there might be a momentary lapse. But to carry into a school, and to know that the school is being locked down because of a [GASP!] man-with-a-gun, and still not remember that "Hey! I'VE got a gun!" just strains credibility.
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Old February 10, 2014, 03:59 PM   #44
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Memory lapses happen to everyone. Parents leave babies to die in hot cars.

I once was in the parking lot and saw a woman leave her wallet on the top of the car and start to drive. I honked at her and she gave me the stink eye.

I pointed out her wallet and her friends gave it to her for being so nasty to someone trying to help her.

A colleague today left a wallet and keys by the microwave.
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Old February 10, 2014, 04:06 PM   #45
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Condoning or encouraging arbitrary and capricious enforcement of laws is IMHO never a good thing. If a law is a bad law, it should be repealed, not sidestepped and circumvented when it's inconvenient to enforce it equally against violators who are purported to be "good people."
Never say never! If it were you that walked into the school, you'd think capricious enforcement of that law would be right swell. Same for me, and same for the fool that did it. I won't fall on my sword for a stupid law. That would just be stupid..
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Old February 10, 2014, 06:19 PM   #46
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Texas deputy; death of 2/two LE K9s....

Today I read a media item of a former sheriff's deputy who was held accountable for the tragic deaths of two law enforcement K9s .
The cop "forgot" to check on or remove the dogs from his LE vehicle & they died. He reportedly left them in the heat for 12-14 hours!


Around 5/6 years ago, Id heard of a similar event. A "undercover" DEA special agent was disciplined by his supervisors for allowing a K9 working dog to die while in his care. The media item didn't really explain how a undercover drug cop had a dog, but his lax attitude caused the dog's death.

Clyde
PS; sorry if these examples seem off topic but some people do get careless
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Old February 10, 2014, 06:38 PM   #47
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At least he isn't claiming "Affluenza" as a defense.
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Old February 11, 2014, 12:59 AM   #48
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I don't know much about this guy other than what I'm seeing in the recent news. What I am seeing all agrees on one central point: Mr. Ferguson has actively advocated for stronger penalties for carrying a weapon on school grounds. Not for stronger penalties for shooting in schools, but for carrying.

Advocating for stronger penalties for an action while asking for leniency for the same action shows is hypocracy. I don't care about his other views. He should be charged with a felony. Hate to see it happen to a guy working to make his neighborhood better, but it would set a great example. When you screw up, you pay the price. As it is now, he is serving a poor example for the kids who look up to him, by trying to weasel out of a clear mistake he made, that has serious consequences.
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Old February 11, 2014, 01:14 AM   #49
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Sounds like a great reason to repeal the SAFE(cough-cough) Act. Heck, even his friends are making the same arguments that good, rational citizens have made for years! Yes, a good guy with a gun in the right place and the right time CAN be a good thing! Imagine that.
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Old February 11, 2014, 02:14 AM   #50
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Heck, even his friends are making the same arguments that good, rational citizens have made for years!
I don't think they are. If asked, I guarantee his supporters think the SAFE Act is a good law; they just don't want their friend to suffer for it.
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