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Old February 4, 2014, 10:26 AM   #101
Brian Pfleuger
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Originally Posted by trg42wraglefragle
I don't get the tactical combat courses that people do, where they are trained to fight of a million bad guys from moving vehicles and learn room clearing. Just seems a tad ridiculous for the average Joe to do such a thing.
Sure you can do it for fun, but there are people who really think they need to do it to keep themselves safe and be prepared.
I used to be a ski instructor... almost seems like another life now... guess who was a better skier on the bunny slope, the one who never left the bunny slope or the one who went to harder hills and came back...

Know where I'm going with that?
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Old February 4, 2014, 12:46 PM   #102
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LOL, you must be going to the paintball range. The guys I see at the range have some pretty nifty gear, but they use all the accessories they have on their guns.
They’re using the flashlights at the range?

Quote:
Quote:
I don't get the tactical combat courses that people do, where they are trained to fight of a million bad guys from moving vehicles and learn room clearing. Just seems a tad ridiculous for the average Joe to do such a thing.
Sure you can do it for fun, but there are people who really think they need to do it to keep themselves safe and be prepared.
And that is why people like you should not be in them.
That’s written almost like an insult. Please clarify.

Quote:
Quote:
Oh and I'm less than 25 years old, so am hardly an old man stuck in the past.
You certainly are not stuck in the future.
Yep that’s an insult.

Quote:
Quote:
I don't get the tactical combat courses that people do, where they are trained to fight of a million bad guys from moving vehicles and learn room clearing. Just seems a tad ridiculous for the average Joe to do such a thing.
Sure you can do it for fun, but there are people who really think they need to do it to keep themselves safe and be prepared.

Given plenty of private land, a tall berm, a 4-door jeep with no top and me and a few other middle aged guys piled in with guns and started blasting at props set up in front of the berm to simulate a drive-by shooting. Life's too short not to have a little "safe" but irresponsible fun. So, take your tactical combat courses, load up on tacticool gear if that's what you like, and like another poster said "for no other reason other than YOU LIKE IT BABY!!!!
Now here is a man who will live a long and happy life. A lesson to live by.
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Old February 4, 2014, 12:57 PM   #103
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A quality tactical course might make you 'better' by some yardstick but such training is by no means required for effective self-defense with a handgun. I think the important things are:
  1. to make an intelligent choice in handguns and STICK with it,
  2. to execute lots of 'dry drills' (LOTS of trigger finger discipline here!) at safely and quickly getting that handgun on target from your normal carry mode,
  3. to burn in the basics of marksmanship,
  4. and maintain it all with intelligent live-fire practice.

If you get those things down you're going to be better than about 75% of the folks I saw on public ranges. My suggestion to new shooters is to avoid anything that clutters up that process.
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Old February 4, 2014, 12:58 PM   #104
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I care less about the modern "tacticool" rage going on. I prefer revolvers, lever carbines and SxS shotguns. What does impress me tho, is the amount of folks getting into the shooting sports because of it. This is a good thing. Anything that expands the circle of those that thru their investments and participation support the RKBA in a positive and responsible way..... is a good thing. I don't like to ride crotch rockets either, but still wave to them from the seat of my Harley when meeting them on the road. They two have their knees in the breeze, just in a different riding position. I'm not a vegetarian, but don't get upset when they are at the same Prime Rib Buffet as I am. Just all the more for me. One reason I got my last used 1911 so cheap was everyone else was lookin' for something with a rail. If playin' tactical makes someone better and more proficient with firearms, who am I to say it is not "cool". Tired of it? Just look the other way and go on with your life.
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Old February 4, 2014, 01:32 PM   #105
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I'm also an old timer, if 65 is old ..... and I also prefer the 'old' firearms. Funny thing, a shooting buddy is a year older than I am, loves ARs and semi auto pistols. He can't understand why I want to shoot single shot and lever action rifles most of the time. In 38-55 or 45-70, though I do have an 1980s stainless mini 14 side folder and I do enjoy the 223 too, but shoot it about like I would a target rifle.

As an aside, I used to be a confirmed revolver man. About 15 years ago I was at the range and a friend talked me into trying out his G-23. Love at first magazine. A G-27 or on light days, a Kahr P380 are my CCW of choice. I still shoot my revolvers once in awhile but the semi autos are my main wheel nowadays and have been since the mid '90s.
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Old February 4, 2014, 02:03 PM   #106
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I'm also an old timer, if 65 is old ..... and I also prefer the 'old' firearms.
Yeah, but your name, "Jimmy10mm" says otherwise! (Just ribbin ya)
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Old February 4, 2014, 03:45 PM   #107
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Tired of "Tactical"?

Yes.

Even tireder of those who wave it around and have no clue as to meaning.
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Old February 4, 2014, 05:08 PM   #108
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Tactical courses can be a fun way to maintain a sort of minute man tradition, and to stay sharp for self defense purposes. Getting out, moving around, shooting at multiple targets and at varying ranges, learning to work cover and concealment, and working on speed are all fun and potentially beneficial.

As far as weapons go...

What is the weight difference between an M1A with a scope and a 16" barreled AR with a light, sling, foregrip, and red dot? Which is more 'practical'? How are most people shooting them? Does a shooter have to take his light off if he goes to the range? Is a light a useless thing to have on an AR if you use it for home defense?

As I said earlier, I'm a handgun guy. I don't own any long guns. Still, a lot of the AR stuff makes great sense to me.
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Old February 5, 2014, 08:18 AM   #109
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Right now, as we speak, I am sitting at my computer wearing a pair of black and grey cargo camo pants for no other reason other than I LIKE EM BABY!!!!
LOL!

& I'm sitting here typing this while wearing my Sponge Bob T-shirt and bright yellow Sponge Bob boxers!

I do have an evil black CZ75B sitting on the desk underneath the periodontist's bill I have to record as paid if that helps me be the most "Tacti-kool"
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Old February 5, 2014, 01:48 PM   #110
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Just a reminder -- it's against TFL's policy to post images, unless you personally own the copyright for the image or have express written permission to use it. And, no, "But it's all over the internet!" doesn't make it OK to post it here. (And if it's all over the internet, everybody has already seen it, and it's boring... )

I've deleted some posts -- no more, please.
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Old February 5, 2014, 03:23 PM   #111
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"Tactical/tacticool"-the latest fad and fashion. This Too Shall Pass. Again, for me-in 1898-"Tactical" was a blue uniform and an M1888 in 45-70.
Tactical courses and training make sense, as an Old Soldier I hve always believed in Worst Case scenarios, train for the Worst and anything less seems easy. I think good tactical training teaches situational awareness, how to observe and analayze in split seconds-the Boyd OODA Loop, if you prefer.
I like to quote something John Grimek (1910-1988)-Two Times Mr. America winner, weightlifting champion and life fitness enthusiast said. He was encouraged challengea swimmer-but Grimek really didn't know how to swim. He figured his strength lone would carry him through. He said he would run through the railyard he worked "practicing" swimming strokes. The Big Day came and......
As Grimek put it:
"To get good at something, you have to practice that something."
I find the "ninjas" and the SWAT team would bes on a par with guys who do a WWII paratrooper impression but are overweight and out of shape. They think they're Mr. Cool-but they look ridiculous!
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Old February 5, 2014, 08:10 PM   #112
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Hope you feel better after getting that out of your system. Now, go get a cookie and a glass of milk...it'll all be okay...

Why do you concern yourself with what other people do? Waste of energy, and a waste of time. Concentrate on what you're doing and make yourself better at something, find new information and become more knowledgeable on a subject that interests you. Much better use of your time and energy.
^This

I would hate to see the OP's reaction to Zombie related items.

Its a free country; people are free to do what they want as long as they are within the confines of the law and not harming anyone.

That tactical cup-holder on the next guys gun is none of your concern

On the flip side, we'll try not to judge your plain old boring guns either...
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Old February 6, 2014, 12:12 AM   #113
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Just a reminder -- it's against TFL's policy to post images, unless you personally own the copyright for the image or have express written permission to use it. And, no, "But it's all over the internet!" doesn't make it OK to post it here. (And if it's all over the internet, everybody has already seen it, and it's boring... )

I've deleted some posts -- no more, please
My bad. Removed the pic from my previous post.
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Old February 6, 2014, 01:21 AM   #114
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Tactical junk

The truth is tactical equipment sells. If you want to shoot like a Seal then you had better look like a Seal - right? I think younger guys buy into this and think the cool equipment will make them a super riflemen. The reality is the only things that can really improve a persons shooting is training and trigger time.
Study, read, take classes and buy ammo. And maybe listen to some of the old dudes.

The strawstalker, behind enemy lines in Liberal Colorado
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Old February 6, 2014, 01:38 AM   #115
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If people want to show up to the range in a tootoo and a Diamond Tiara, it doesn't bother me. I'll show up in my blue jeans and t-shirt. If someone wants to put 10 pounds of tactical stuff on their guns, that's ok by me, as long as you don't try to make me carry it.
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Old February 6, 2014, 06:26 AM   #116
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I've shot in a carbine match with my M1 carbine using standard 15 round magazines.
Pff, your semi-automatic, magazine fed, peep-sighted, featherweight poodle-shooter is soooooo tacticool. I’ll bring my Martini-Enfield with sword bayonet and teach you not to waste ammunition.

Quote:
Some of those guys want to run guns similar to what they had when they were in or maybe they want something that approaches the tools carried by the guys they looked up to.
Then they should wear a bright RED uniform to the range … it impressed the fuzzy-wuzzies. I did once ... people laughed

Quote:
As a bonus, I painted the stock a bright purple just to present a proud middle finger to the ItsGottaBeBlack crowd
And all you did was annoy the ItsGotToBeWoodAndBlueSteel crowd.

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Sadly, not even bolt guns are not immune to this frenzy. If you don't have the latest bazillion dollar scope on your gun then you are outcast.
I agree with you on this one, all a bolt gun needs is a magazine cut-off and sturdy bayonet mount.
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Old February 6, 2014, 10:33 AM   #117
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I've never even wasted a breath of air worrying or fussing about what the tacti-cool crowd buys, uses, or shoots. As long as they don't shoot at me, endanger me in anyway, heck I like to watch them shoot up all their ammo. After they have fired 4-5 full mags and put a half dozen bullets in the target, I can get my target with all of them in it. And I can pretty much guarantee that if one of them asked if I wanted to blaze through a couple mags worth of ammo in their rifles with all the bells and whistles I would do it in a heartbeat, why not (as long as they are buying ammo I am willing to burn it for them), even if it was in full zombi-apocolypse dress mode.
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Old February 6, 2014, 10:44 AM   #118
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I have a 2 AR's with lights and "modern" optics... Yet I'm also an old fart. I guess I don't belong to either of the "cool guy" clubs.

I don't understand why everyone is worked up over what someone else has on their rifle. And every person owning a "black mall ninja rifle" is another supporter of the 2nd Amendment. I have no problem with that.



One more thing to think about. That 20 pound AR in the next shooting lane. Unless that guy is carrying it all day then the weight isn't a problem. When you go for your gun in the middle of the night because you hear a crash or bang, the last thing you notice is the weight.

We might feel a lot of the stuff they are useing is unessicary and "useless" but at the end of the day if it gives the owner confidence then it is of value. When it comes to self defense there is NOTHING more important than the will to fight and survive. Criminals know this and that is why they usualy run/flee when they see their intended victim is armed and willing to defend themselfs.
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Old February 6, 2014, 10:54 AM   #119
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"black mall ninja rifle"
I love this term! Can you imagine saying "mall ninja" pre-internet...or pre Gecko45?
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Old February 6, 2014, 10:58 AM   #120
Father Time
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Can you imagine saying "mall ninja" pre-internet...or pre Gecko45?
I picture 80's high school kids hanging out at the food court spinning "Bruce Lee" brand nunchuks wearing tabi boots, paracute pants and arguing the merits of Jeet Kun Do vs Tai Kwon Do.
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Old February 6, 2014, 04:36 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Father Time View Post



I don't understand why everyone is worked up over what someone else has on their rifle.

X2 to this... The same ppl waa waa'n about how other ppl shoot or what kind of guns they use are the same people yelling don't infringe on "MY" rights.

Too ironic.
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Old February 6, 2014, 05:23 PM   #122
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Isn't this a bit like railing on someone who bought a Les Baer 1911 for a few K, instead of a RIA for a few hundred and happens not to be a good shot?

As for the Honda analogy, how many "SUVs" are there running around that never see an ounce of dirt? They don't seem to be viewed as a craze to be ridiculed.

My point is that there are plenty of examples where people behave like this when they buy things, from guns to cars, cameras to designer clothes. I don't see why ARs should be singled out while these other examples are spared the scrutiny.

I ride bikes. I used to ride sports bikes. I have seen bikers with "all the gear but no idea", so to speak. Sliders, race cans, replica lids and chicken strips an inch wide on the rear tyre. Yes it was a bit OTT, but ultimately they enjoyed bikes and so did I. I could always remind myself I was probably faster on the twisties.

My advice is do the same. Take solace in the fact you shoot better and let them enjoy shooting. They are, after all, your allies when it comes to keeping shooting what it is and should be, are they not?
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Last edited by Pond, James Pond; February 6, 2014 at 06:07 PM.
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Old February 6, 2014, 05:51 PM   #123
Jeff #111
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I don't get all that excited about those folks. It's what they like and what's the harm? In the eighties and nineties I was all about semi-auto pistols. Thought I was Bruce Willis, Mel Gibson and Don Johnson all rolled into one person. I was younger. I loved S&W, Sig-Sauer, Beretta and H&K pistols. Couldn't afford most of those pistols, but I thought they were everything. I got older and my tastes changed. Now it's revolvers and a few older pistols. Of course now second and third generaton S&W pistols are bringing some impressive dollar amounts on the second hand market.

Now I'm grateful for the tactical craze. More old revolvers for me.
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Old February 6, 2014, 08:41 PM   #124
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I really like all of it.

First of all I want it to be known that I love revolvers, especially Smith and Wesson revolvers. The thing is I shoot them one day and another I will break out my S&W 15-22 or my Windham Weaponry AR-15. Other days I'm in the mood to shoot my Lever actions rifles.
Insofar as gear goes, I prefer leather holsters but also like MOLLE gear and find soft tactical MOLLE rifle cases and bags from manufacturers like Maxpedition to be very handy and fit my needs perfectly. Modern "tactical" gear is very functional and does its job better than older designs so not all of it is garbage. On a side note, I can't stand camo and never wear it and none of my gear is camo.
I see no reason for us to limit ourselves when there are so many fine firearms out there to shoot and well designed gear to use.
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Old February 7, 2014, 01:31 AM   #125
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I've been muzzle flashed by 1000 AR owners. Never Garands.

I've watched 1000 AR guys fiddle with their scope and rack actions while I'm down range. Never K98s.

I've had 1000 AR guys explain that this & that gadget are perfect for killing zombies. Never Arisakas.

I've seen 1000 drunk, high, uncouth, shady, sketchy, irresponsible, unsafe AR kids. Never 1903s.

That's why I hate tacticoolers.
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