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Old January 29, 2014, 10:49 PM   #1
littlephil
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Turk M38 possibilities

Hello all, first time posting here.
I have a Turk M38 dated 1942 that has had the barrel cut back and recrowned. I plan to shoot the remainder of my prvi 8mm Mauser ammo to see how it patterns with the original barrel (rifling looks kinda weak). If it still shoots ok I will probably ream it to 8mm06, to get some smithing practice and because it seems easier to load for than to form 8x57 brass from 06. If, however, it wont pattern well I'm looking to rebarrel. I have several calibers in mind but am looking for input on useful calibers that will fit the action and magwell with minor modification (or better yet none ). All suggestions are appreciated and thank you in advance.
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Old January 30, 2014, 05:00 PM   #2
Roughedge
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Its easy to make 8mm out of 06 brass and it not much different than 8mm06. When I shoot all my 8mm ammo up I'm going to put a 25-06 barrel on it.
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Old January 30, 2014, 05:21 PM   #3
William T. Watts
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If you rebarrel you should consider a 7X57, nothing would have to be changed. Factory ammunition may be a problem but 7X57 cases should be available from the usually outlets on the internet. Depending on your skill level rechambering and reboring the barrel to .308 isn't something a novice should undertake, if the machine work isn't up to par your still going to be out money for a reamer unless you rent it and the rifle still "may" not group well!! It slipped my mind but a go and no go gauge will be necessary no matter what you decide to do!! William

Last edited by William T. Watts; January 30, 2014 at 06:37 PM.
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Old January 30, 2014, 06:30 PM   #4
littlephil
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Thank you for the replies. If I do end up rebarreling I will for sure take it to someone else who has the experience and machine tools necessary. As far as cartridges to rebarrel for, I have actually considered 25-06, as well as 7x57 and even 6.5 swede. I also considered 338-06 as I plan to, one day within the next few years, hunt black bear and elk. In fact, does anyone know how 8mm06 with stout loads compares to 338-06? I've heard, and my speer manual confirms, that the 06 version has very little if any gain over the 8x57. Does anyone load for the 8mm06 that can say otherwise? Also I've priced renting a reamer and buying gages so I have a good Idea what I'm in for there. Thanks again and keep the info coming.
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Old January 30, 2014, 06:42 PM   #5
William T. Watts
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The 8mmX06 if you have to have a wildcat would be my choice because it is expand the case neck and your done. I don't believe you would have to trim the cases unless you wish to uniform all to the exact same length! This round will handle black bear and elk nicely! I built a 338/06 while at Trinidad St. Jr. College in their Gunsmith program, the action I choose was an Argentine A series low serial number that was too soft, it developed H/space with 40 rounds fired thru it. Keep that in mind, the older actions aren't up to the 50K cup pounding they will have to take FWIW!! William

Last edited by William T. Watts; January 30, 2014 at 06:48 PM.
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Old January 30, 2014, 08:21 PM   #6
littlephil
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That's about what I was figuring on the 8-06. But I'll probably only do that chambering if the current barrel still shoots good. I hate to hear that about the argie, I hope that you didn't have too much in components. I completed a gunsmith course through Penn. Foster online. While it was a very good course with lots of great info, I missed out on a lot of hands on stuff, outside of the basics that I could do with the limited hand tools I have. I wish that I knew someone that had at least some basic machine tools that I could practice on. All in do time I guess. I'm just thankful for forums like this with very knowledgeable folks to steer me in the right direction. Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my post.
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Old January 31, 2014, 10:34 AM   #7
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littlephil,

The 8x57 isn't eclipsed to much by the 8mm-06 with heavy hunting bullets. About a 100fps with same weight bullets over either the 8x57 or 30-06. With 150gr bullets Charlie Askins was able to get over 3000 fps. He had troubles with those bullets "exploding on impact" and not killing the animals they were hunting. I am not a fan of light bullets at screaming velocities for taking big game.

Suffice to say that you can easily hunt elk, moose, black bear, etc, with an 8x57, or with a 30-06, or with an 8mm-06 and the animals won't be able to tell the difference.

The best reason to wildcat to an 8mm-06 is that if you have a worn 8x57 throat but good bore and muzzle, simply rechambering will give you new use of the same barrel.

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Old January 31, 2014, 05:21 PM   #8
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Jimro,

Thanks for the info. I think 150s goin 3000fps sound like a great groundhog round for the farm fields around here. I am a fan of heavy for caliber bullets though. I pretty much figured there wouldn't be much difference between the three as far as performance on big game. But as I stated in my original post, getting some smithing practice is a big part of my reasoning for reaming to 8-06. Plus I don't know anyone personally who has one and I like to be different. Plus if I mess up on the reaming I'll have another excuse to rebarrel. Haha If I go that route, I'm not sure if i want to go with a 308 win based round or a full length round. At least I know the shorter rounds will fit both the mag and through the action. Thanks again and keep the info and suggestions comin.
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Old January 31, 2014, 05:29 PM   #9
F. Guffey
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I have an 8nn06 chamber reamer, when I go to 8mm06 I find an improvement over the 8mm57 and the 30/06, I am sure I have a few bullets left over from the days of C. Askin.

If the 8mm57 was good, the 8mm06 is better. the case body is .121" longer and as William Watts said, necking up the 30/06 case to .323 is a conversion that does not require a special die, as RCBS says 'just neck them up'.

Speed, the Turks got the 8mm57 up to 3,000 fps, always, when talking about it the 29 inch barrel is never mentioned.

Back in the old days in Alaska many Mausers were chambered to 8mm06, nothing suspect about the conversion and there was the other reason, they had the rifle, the ammo was somewhere else.

Then there is the 35 Whelen and the 338/06, and the 338/280 Remington, I have to decide what receiver the 338/280 Remington going to be installed on.

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Old January 31, 2014, 06:02 PM   #10
littlephil
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F. Guffey,

I may be thinking of something else, but I thought the 280 was based on the 06 case with a different shoulder. In any event I am not familiar with the 338/280. Is there any advantage over the 338-06? I have also considered 9.3x62 as a rebarrel possibility but I still need to look up specifics on it to make sure it will work out.


And if anyone was wondering, my Turk is a K.Kale. I could've swore I put that in the original post, but I obviously didn't.
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Old February 1, 2014, 12:55 AM   #11
F. Guffey
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Quote:
I may be thinking of something else, but I thought the 280 was based on the 06 case with a different shoulder. In any event I am not familiar with the 338/280. Is there any advantage over the 338-06?
The 280 Remington case is .046" longer than the 30/06 from the end of the neck to the case head. The case body is .051" longer than the 30/06 case body from the shoulder to the case head.

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...%20Express.pdf

There is nothing suspect about the 338/06. I have access to an Ackley Improved reamer, to get it I have to have a good excuse to visit my resource people, one is concerned about loosing 3 rifles he built 40 years ago, I suggested he give me an address. Round trip will be 180 miles.

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Old February 1, 2014, 01:33 AM   #12
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F. Guffey,

Thanks for the info on the 280 case. I need to make some friends here in Ohio who can show me how to do some things and who have machine tools I could learn on. I usually hate to ask people to help me because I feel like I'd be a bother. Maybe someone will take me under their wing someday, I just hope they have big wings.
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Old February 1, 2014, 01:54 PM   #13
F. Guffey
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Resource people: the Internet is one of the strangest places I know of. In the real world there are 4 in the resource department excluding the most disciplined reloader I know and myself, years in a machine shop and building guns, collectively the four have 200+ years of experience. On the Internet there is one brave sole that would venture a visit. In the beginning he could not believe I could upset so many members? of a forum. I planned his trip with projects and visits to the resource department(s).

Then there is Unclenick, he is special, he provides the luxury of disagreeing with him. I would suggest you contact him, he is located in Ohio.

Three of the four smiths went to fire new creations, one was a 50 BMG type rifle, after chambering and attempting to fire 10 different rounds one gave up, you would think with curiosity and all that talent there would not be enough room for all those hands and heads to get a look see. No one was interested, they loaded it in the back of the P/U for the return trip.

He called me, I ask "WHAT! You went to the range and did not ask me to go and now you want my help?" The next trip answered all of his questions.

F. Guffey

Last edited by F. Guffey; February 1, 2014 at 01:57 PM. Reason: change: of three to of four
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Old February 1, 2014, 03:59 PM   #14
littlephil
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F. Guffey,
That's a LOT of experience with guns and machining! I'm assuming Unclenick is a member here and I'll have to shoot a pm his way. I would love to be even a small part in building a really neat and/or different gun, but at this point I'm just hoping to get one project "finished " Thanks again for the help and as always its appreciated.
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Old February 1, 2014, 04:50 PM   #15
F. Guffey
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Unclenick is a member here and I'll have to shoot a pm his way.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/index.php

Click the link above to open then scroll down the right column under Moderator, he is the Moderator of the reloading forum.

F. Guffey

Last edited by F. Guffey; February 1, 2014 at 04:54 PM. Reason: change left to right
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Old February 1, 2014, 05:12 PM   #16
F. Guffey
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http://www.turkmauser.com/1938/

One of the four purchased 100+ Turkish Mausers for $37.00 each, he turned them into magnificent rifles, it was assumed all of the rifles were large ring receivers with small shank barrels. when I purchased them I checked, I purchased one that looked like it had been drug further than it had been carried. I chambered a test round, pulled the trigger, destroyed the case, after test firing the rifle still had the look of a rifle that had been drug back by a disappointed army.

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Old February 1, 2014, 06:09 PM   #17
Clark
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I have purchased over 100 Mausers for sporterizing over the last 49 years.

Some of them are almost done

I do not recommend it for being cost effective.
You have to do it because you want to.
Some new Rem700 piece of junk will kill the deer just as dead.
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Old February 1, 2014, 08:05 PM   #18
littlephil
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F. Guffey,
Thanks for the link. I wish you could still get rifles that cheap.

Clark,
Those are some good looking bolts. I know its definitely not cost effective, this was my first centerfire rifle and its not going anywhere while I'm alive. I had a ruger American in 270 win. Great gun and shot great. I just don't like modern stock materials and rifle designs all that well. Plus I can't bring myself to modify a brand new gun.
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Old February 1, 2014, 11:47 PM   #19
F. Guffey
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One of the four builds 20 Mausers at a time, same for welding and building cut-up 45 ACPs. He called and ask if I would be interested in a stack of P14s,

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Old February 2, 2014, 12:57 AM   #20
littlephil
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Wow, a stack of p14s? If only I had unlimited funds.
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Old February 2, 2014, 01:27 PM   #21
F. Guffey
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If only I had unlimited funds
He called and ask for help, he had three rifles he could not take apart. I was not on a timer, it took me longer to explain how than it took me to get the receivers to the point he could start milling.

There is a difference between funds and friends.

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Old February 2, 2014, 03:43 PM   #22
littlephil
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F. Guffey,
As my luck goes I don't have a whole lot of either one.
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Old February 2, 2014, 06:29 PM   #23
littlephil
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Well I got to shoot my Mauser and it printed a decent pattern offhand. I may have a guy I know reload the few cases I have and see how it does from a bench. It looks as if I'll be reaming to 8mm06 and putting money into a stock and getting it drilled and tapped
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Old February 4, 2014, 10:37 PM   #24
littlephil
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Does anyone own an 8mm06AI? A buddy of mine is willing to go in on dies and everything with me if I go that route. Would this chambering be more work than its worth? Would I be better off building a 338-06 or a 35 whelen?
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Old February 5, 2014, 11:45 AM   #25
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I just built a 7.62x39 from Turk mauser. The inner ring helps feeding and large ring receiver is stronger, my previous x39 builds were using small ring mausers. There isn't many x39 bolt guns out there at reasonable price, I would just buy a commercial rifle if other calibers.
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