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Old January 29, 2014, 09:01 PM   #1
steveNChunter
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Benchrest .22: CZ 455 vs. Savage MK II

I recently joined my local gun club and they have a monthly 100 yard .22lr benchrest competition. I don't own a bolt action .22lr so I'm gonna have to buy one to get in the game.

I'm currently considering the Savage MK II FV or CZ 455 varmint but I'm open to other suggestions. If I were to choose the Savage I would be getting a Boyd's Tacticool stock for it.

What are the pros and cons of each and should I also be considering something else?



Before somebody suggests it, I can't afford an Anschutz.
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Old January 29, 2014, 09:07 PM   #2
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Read through this thread.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=538898
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Old January 30, 2014, 01:29 AM   #3
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I have seen some remarkable groups posted with the CZ 452, which is what prompted me to buy mine. I'm not good enough of a shooter yet to provide testimony on the accuracy though

One thing to note, the CZ will have an issue mounting scopes. The irons (at least on my ZKM trainer) are placed in the worst possible place - high and right in the middle of the rifle where a scope would stick out. You'll need a pair of high rings like these: http://www.amazon.com/BSA-Rings-High.../dp/B000B5A5Q8 Which work great with my Nikon P-22.

I love my CZ, but I'm kind of a loyalist in that regard, so take it for what it's worth.
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Old January 30, 2014, 06:11 AM   #4
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I have to agree with Dakota that CZ has the sights on the 452 in an awkward position to accommodate a scope. I have the 452 Trainer and I bought the CZ rings and it was a pain to get the scope ( Nikon P22 ) mounted to keep the bell from rubbing the front sight and to keep the bolt from rubbing the eyepiece.

I ordered an 11 mm Picatinny rail adapter and mounted that and put QD Warne rings on the scope. It is rock solid and the rifle does shoot pretty good.

I did have a trigger job done on it and had the action glass bedded and the barrel floated.

I also took the plunge and ordered an Anschutz MPR64. It is on the truck in Mesa and should be delivered to the FFL today. If they are not too slow, perhaps I can get the DIP rail adapter installed and mount and boresight a scope today and take it to the range tomorrow.

The adapter for the CZ was ordered from Midway. I think it is a Tactical Solutions product but don't remember anymore. Google is your friend. I think it cost me about $50.
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Old January 30, 2014, 07:45 AM   #5
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I enjoy my CZ452 American. It comes without iron sights so it's easy to mount a scope.


edit to add: It looks like the CZ455 varmint allows for easy scope mounting.
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Old January 30, 2014, 11:35 AM   #6
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Performance ???

Quote:
What are the pros and cons of each and should I also be considering something else?
With all due respect, we can go back and forth with pros and cons but eventually, you will have to define your expectations. I have owned both and both have exceeded my expectations. I consider myself a "fair" shot and most of what I have, will out-shoot my capabilities. .....

I like to tinker and experiment and the Savage provides me more options to do so. ....

Enjoy and;
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Old January 30, 2014, 12:01 PM   #7
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I haven't seen a good stock on a savage .22 lately. So my choice would be the CZ if you have to buy new. Me, I'd be looking for an old target model .22 with a stock designed for riding a front rest.

There are several on GB and you might check out rimfire central for a rifle. It's hard to wear out a .22, so I would be looking for a good used one. One that is already set up for the type of shooting you want to do.
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Old January 30, 2014, 12:10 PM   #8
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Many Options !!

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I haven't seen a good stock on a savage .22 lately.
Then you need to take a second look as they surely exist. Don't get me wrong, some of their rifles do come with cheap stocks but in this case, he is going to upgrade to a Boyd's which will fit the Savage like a glove. .....

Be Safe !!!
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Old January 30, 2014, 05:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
you will have to define your expectations
I want to win 100 yard .22 benchrest matches and I want to have less than $500 in the base rifle. Scope, trigger work, etc. will be a separate budget.
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Old January 30, 2014, 05:18 PM   #10
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Savage MKII - TR all the way USA made keep are people working THANKS
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Old January 30, 2014, 05:40 PM   #11
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Savage MKII - TR all the way USA made keep are people working THANKS
Savage rimfire rifles are made in Canada.
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Old January 30, 2014, 08:07 PM   #12
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If you expect to win with whichever rifle you buy, you might attend a couple of the matches as a spectator to see what your potential competition is using.

For example, our local Podunk gun club has two fairly active groups of rim fire competitors.

First is the silhouette crowd, they seem to primarily use economical rifles and shoot for enjoyment. Here, a Ruger, CZ or a Savage bolt gun would allow you to be competitive.

At the other end, we have an active BR crowd, including several rim fire bench rest national record holders. These guys seem to favor heavily customized Winchester 52's, Anschutzs and even some Time Precisions. In other words, a lightly massaged CZ or Savage off the rack just isn't going to cut it. They're nice rifles, but it's like running a Camaro at an F1 event.

I guess I'm saying that you need to weigh your competitive expectations against the competition. If it's a casual br match, either of the rifles will be fine, but if these guys are $eriou$ about what they're doing, you may have to adjust your plans.
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Old January 30, 2014, 09:06 PM   #13
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I have been to one match as a spectator, and I've looked at last years results on their website. Most of the CZ's are 452's, a couple 455's. There are several Savage MKII's and one Savage-Anschutz that always does pretty well. A couple mediocre 10/22's and a couple Kimber 84G's that do pretty well. Most are using Eley Match ammo so I bought a 500rd brick the other day (never paid that much for .22lr in my life! )

Nobody is using a full custom rifle, such a setup may not even be allowed I'm not sure
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Old January 30, 2014, 09:28 PM   #14
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Given the equipment list, I think I'd stick with the CZ.

It sounds like if you can find one with a br or varmint style stock, you'll be in good shape.

Don't skimp on the ammo, 100 yards is where you'll see the difference between stuff like the Eley and good old Thunderbolts. Sounds like you already know that, though.

You might hunt around a place like Champions Choice, sometimes they'll have stuff like the Eley club ammo at reasonable prices.
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Old January 30, 2014, 09:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Most are using Eley Match ammo so I bought a 500rd brick the other day (never paid that much for .22lr in my life! )
Think that is bad, try buying a brick of Lapua Midas sometime.
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Old January 30, 2014, 10:08 PM   #16
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Consider the Russian Izhmash CM-2 rifle.
These things are crazy accurate on a budget.
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Old January 30, 2014, 10:09 PM   #17
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I shoot a CZ452. It is a great rifle & I have no regrets. I also have a Marlin 780, great rifle & no regrets. I don't own a Savage but see a Mark II-BV in my future.

I have an Anschutz 1411 & none of the above will shoot with it. Just sayin'.

Last edited by LAH; January 31, 2014 at 09:33 PM.
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Old January 31, 2014, 07:17 AM   #18
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I have the 452 Trainer that has been bedded and floated along with a trigger job as well as a Ruger 77-22 that has been pillar bedded, floated and had the trigger worked on.

Both guns run fine. The CZ is a little more accurate than the Ruger. I am wanting more. I sprung for an Anschutz MPR 64 and got it yesterday. I put a DIP rail on it and a small 2-7 scope on it and will go to the range this morning.

The picture is the factory test target. 5 shots at 50 meters.

I wonder how close I can come to that? I am going to run several brands of ammo through it and see what happens. I will probably have to get better glass for it if things work out.
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Old January 31, 2014, 06:55 PM   #19
steveNChunter
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Quote:
Consider the Russian Izhmash CM-2 rifle.
These things are crazy accurate on a budget.
I had never heard of an Izhmash before, but after Googling them they seem like nice rifles. Can they be bought without the huge aperture sights on them, and how easy are they to get scope mounts for?
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Old January 31, 2014, 07:11 PM   #20
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From what I've seen of them, they have a grooved receiver and the rear aperture sight is attached to the groove. Once you remove the rear sight you'll be able to mount rings on it to attach your scope to the rifle.
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Old February 1, 2014, 12:13 PM   #21
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Here is a pic of the preliminary ammo testing of the Anschutz MPR 64.

I shot all groups at 25 yards and all are 5 shot groups.

Top left is Federal Premium
Top middle is Agula Super Speed
Top right is Lapua Standard
Lower left is Lapua Center X
Lower middle is W-W Super speed
Lower right is bulk CCI Mini Mag.

The Mini Mag group is hard to wrap my head around. I either threw 3 in the berm or 4 went into the same hole.
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Old February 1, 2014, 02:01 PM   #22
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Taking my CZ 452 out yesterday and bench resting it, I had several groups that were nickel sized or smaller at 50 yards. However, I couldn't seem to get it on the X ring. So they were grouped well, but in the wrong location and it seemed to move constantly up and right, maybe as the barrel heated up. I was very happy with the groups but I need more time with the rifle to get it where I want it to be. For reference, at 50 yards, I was shooting smaller groups than the top middle in the picture above me, but not as good as most of the smaller groups. Wish I had taken a picture for easier reference.

EDIT: Shot with American Eagle .22, which I find to be pretty good ammo. Up there with CCI Mini Mags
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Old February 1, 2014, 02:57 PM   #23
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The vagaries gun making are such that, for any brand x rifle there are brand Y rifles that are more or less accurate or functional or ???, and vice versa. Throw in the fickleness each rifle has when it comes to ammunition and the matter gets even fuzzier. The best solution would be to buy a couple dozen of each, test them with a large variety of ammo (and lot numbers, to be sure), then keep the best and dispose of the rest. I can barely afford to buy a single rifle and my ammo testing often takes so long to accomplish that I am limited to catalog numbers. Lot numbers sell out before I have enough data to choose one. (Sorry, but that is a bit fatuous: I am not doing anything worthy of that level of testing. I buy the cheapest clean shooting ammo I can find.)

In recent years I have bought a Savage MkII and a CZ 452 Scout for kids in my life. The Savage is slightly better than ½" at 50 yards with a variety of bulk ammo. The CZ, to my knowledge, has not been tested beyond the tin can level yet. The CZ is quite a bit more pleasing to the hand and to the eye, as expected in a rifle costing nearly triple the Savage's price, but I cannot say that one functions better than the other. YMMV
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Old February 1, 2014, 03:08 PM   #24
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I've owned the Savage, and sold it after a side by side comparison with my CZ 452. The Savage, while accurate, does not hold a candle to the CZ. It's just flat-out a more accurate rifle. The fitment is more than acceptable from a price standpoint, at least IMO. Nickel and dime-size groups all day long at 50 yards. At 100, inch to inch-and-a-quarter groups, if I'm on my game. I haven't shot in any matches with it, but would expect good results from the rifle if I did. Outside of that, it's a squirrel-assassinating machine! One note: mine is the 452 Lux (24" barrel, hump-back stock). The stock aligns your eye very will with the sights. I see some people above note that the sights are in a bad location for a scope. Mine is without a scope, but the tangent sights are great. Very easy to look across. In fact, nicest irons out of all the rifles that I own!
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Old February 1, 2014, 04:43 PM   #25
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Well I've done a little more looking into the rules for the .22 benchrest match.

There is a light and heavy class, the light class must be under 8.5 lbs for the full setup. The heavy or "open" class has no weight restriction and has the more dedicated, heavily modified, expensive target rifles competing. The Savage MKII FV with the scope I'd be using and the tacticool stock, would be over 8.5 lbs. So for that reason I'm giving the FV-SR with the 16.5" barrel and possibly the Boyd's SS Evolution stock a more serious thought.

Here's a link to last month's results listing the rifle and respective score to give an idea of the competition: http://www.wataugagunclub.com/Discip...%20Results.pdf

And a link to the rules: http://www.wataugagunclub.com/Discip...%20Forward.pdf
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