The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 29, 2014, 09:26 AM   #1
chaska
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2014
Posts: 9
Barrel removal and re-install

Hello everyone. This is my first posting. Thanks in advance for the help or interest. I am rebuilding a Mauser. It has an excellent barrel but the action is pretty rough, has some pitting and needs to be re-blued. Before I separate the two is there anything I should do, or be concerned with? Once separated I plan to clean up the action and rust blue it, then put it back together with the barrel.

Before removing the barrel I plan to use a punch to make a mark on each so I can tighten the barrel to the exact same position. The barrel has iron sights so it needs to return to the same location.

Lastly, I know the action and barrel are not a matched set. The barrel is from a JC Higgens rifle and the action is a Waffenfabrik Oberdorf military style, year unknown. My goal is to make an attractive and accurate hunter. Precision is necessary, but not at any cost. I don't think additional machining of the barrel or action is necessary but am I missing something here I might regret later?

Thanks again.
chaska is offline  
Old January 29, 2014, 10:12 AM   #2
Goatwhiskers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2009
Location: Batchelor, La.
Posts: 479
Normally the barrel and receiver are polished and blued as a unit. You really don't want to get into taking the barrel out as a barrel vise and correct action wrench are required, presuming you don't have those. A pipe wrench and bench vise won't work. It also is very difficult, not impossible to remove and reinstall the barrel without mucking up the existing finish. GW
Goatwhiskers is offline  
Old January 29, 2014, 05:37 PM   #3
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 2,798
chaska,

Quote:
Thanks in advance for the help or interest.
It is not required for me to remove the barrel to check the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face, but I would not pass up the opportunity to check the case head protrusion from the barrel and the distance from the 'C' ring down to the bolt face.

Before removing the barrel I would check to see if the receiver was contacting the shoulder at the end of the barrel threads.

No mention of large ring/small ring.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old January 30, 2014, 07:04 PM   #4
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 3,241
Quote:
Precision is necessary, but not at any cost. I don't think additional machining of the barrel or action is necessary but am I missing something here I might regret later?
I've got a "U-Fix-Em" K98K Mauser being delivered tomorrow, and I'm going through the same thought process.

I've built a few long-range Savages, very (1/2 minute) accurate rifles- but to me, it's more an "assembly" than a build...

I know for generations, gunsmiths have been schooled by building rifles from Mauser actions.

I plan on doing more than you (barrel replacement at a minimum), but am trying to determine where the cost/benefit curve lies.

Since you're removing the barrel, you might consider checking the lugs for contact in the raceways, and perhaps lapping them if there's lousy contact. This might mean setting the barrel back a tad, depending on how much material would be removed.

You could also have the receiver and barrel trued/blueprinted, but I'm dubious of the value of doing this since you're not replacing the barrel with an aftermarket match-grade. Kind of like putting Michelins on an Escort.

Not sure on the wisdom of removing the barrel if goal is simply to re-blue- I know I wouldn't, as cold-blueing can be done with the barrel in place.

Good luck, post pics...
__________________
Custom Bent Bolts and Gunstocks for the Mosin-Nagant
www.biggorillagunworks.com
tobnpr is offline  
Old January 31, 2014, 10:31 AM   #5
chaska
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2014
Posts: 9
Quote:
Before removing the barrel I would check to see if the receiver was contacting the shoulder at the end of the barrel threads.
It is. The fit of the barrel looks good. I also checked the shoulders on the bolt and the contact is about 75%.
chaska is offline  
Old January 31, 2014, 10:39 AM   #6
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,774
Chaska,

If the JC Higgins barrel isn't chrome lined (some were, in 270 and 30-06) or uses iron sights, then while barrel is off true up the action shoulder, C-ring, and bolt face.

Ideally you take the same amount off of each surface so that headspace is unchanged for barrel re-assembly.

Jimro
__________________
"Gorsh" said Goofy as secondary explosions racked the beaten zone, "Did I do that?"

http://randomthoughtsandguns.blogspot.com/
Jimro is offline  
Old January 31, 2014, 11:01 AM   #7
PetahW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 4,679
.

I wouldn't R&R the same bbl, just for a refinishing. (jes' sayin' )


.
PetahW is offline  
Old January 31, 2014, 11:10 AM   #8
chaska
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2014
Posts: 9
Quote:
Not sure on the wisdom of removing the barrel if goal is simply to re-blue- I know I wouldn't, as cold-blueing can be done with the barrel in place.
Yes, but cold blueing is not rust blueing, which is what I prefer. But then, the barrel is not rust blued either, I am sure it was hot blued so I may end up rebluing both just for consistency.

My project is not that different than yours. I think my barrel, while not a high end aftermarket barrel is very high quality and in next to new condition. I have a Bell and Carlson Medalist stock and a Timney trigger with a safety to add. I am debating a new trigger guard/hinged floor plate upgrade as well.

I definitely will clean up the rails as best I can if I take it apart.

Feeding is also very rough. It works if I slam the bolt home but if I try to gently feed a shell it always jams. When I slam a shell in it really chews up the bullet. At a minimum I think I need a new spring.

The last thing will be a scope, which I should sort out before I do any reblueing.

Cost Benefit? If that was relevant we would could buy a Weatherby Vanguard or Thompson Icon. Less money and better accuracy right out of the box but what's the fun in that?
chaska is offline  
Old January 31, 2014, 11:31 AM   #9
chaska
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2014
Posts: 9
Quote:
If the JC Higgins barrel isn't chrome lined (some were, in 270 and 30-06) or uses iron sights, then while barrel is off true up the action shoulder, C-ring, and bolt face.
It is a 270 and I believe chrome lined. It has iron sights so if I understand your suggestion, any machining at this point will mean the sights on the barrel will not end up at the top. Since the fit looks to be good I thought I could remove the barrel and when done with the action tighten it back to the same position.

If I am to reblue the barrel can I remove the sights and fill the holes? Is this something a smith could do for me?

I can only speculate about the history of my rifle but I think it had a FN action that someone used on a different rifle, put the rough military action I now have on my barrel and put a commercial style bolt on. Then they did a hack job of fitting it in a Fajen stock.

I have a good barrel, good bolt (now that I cleaned it up and polished it) but I need to bend the handle back a little, and an action that is pretty rough but salvageable. With a little bedding work it should fit my B&C stock and I will have what I hope to be a nice shooting 270.

That's the plan anyways.
chaska is offline  
Old January 31, 2014, 01:48 PM   #10
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,774
A smith can fill in the holes for you. If you are going to do that, definitely true the bolt face, C ring, and shoulder on the action.

If the action isn't drilled and tapped already, you should have the smith do that as well.

Also, if someone just screwed the barrel off of the FN action and onto the k98 action, then you might already have headspace issues OR the chamber may have been reamed and the chrome machined away already.

You can test the chamber with a Q-tip and some "cold blue" solution. If the cold blue solution works on the chamber, then it isn't chromed.

Jimro
__________________
"Gorsh" said Goofy as secondary explosions racked the beaten zone, "Did I do that?"

http://randomthoughtsandguns.blogspot.com/
Jimro is offline  
Old January 31, 2014, 03:27 PM   #11
chaska
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2014
Posts: 9
Quote:
You can test the chamber with a Q-tip and some "cold blue" solution. If the cold blue solution works on the chamber, then it isn't chromed.
I don't really care if the barrel is chrome lined or not as long as it is true. However, I think it would be a problem if someone put a reamer into a chromed barrel. Would you be left with a hard edge at the end of the reamer?

In other words, if the breach is not chromed and the muzzle is - isn't the barrel junk?
chaska is offline  
Old January 31, 2014, 09:07 PM   #12
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 3,241
Not my area of expertise, but I've spoken with a couple of guys that have reamed chrome-lined barrels (specifically, UK-59 MG barrels in 54R installed on Mosin-Nagant actions) and set them back. IIRC, special (tungsten?) reamer from PTG to handle the cutting the chrome.

Chrome electroplating is so thin, it apparently can still leave a very smooth transition at the leade- or so I'm told.
__________________
Custom Bent Bolts and Gunstocks for the Mosin-Nagant
www.biggorillagunworks.com
tobnpr is offline  
Old February 1, 2014, 12:43 AM   #13
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,774
Quote:
In other words, if the breach is not chromed and the muzzle is - isn't the barrel junk?
If it shoots good now, then I wouldn't mess with it either way.

All that truing the shoulder, c-ring, and bolt face will do for you is ensure groups don't wander as the barrel heats, and that the brass isn't bent into a banana shape for reloading. If this is a hunting rifle, you won't shoot it on a hunt long enough to shift your zero, and you won't shoot enough ammo to worry about reloading the brass.

Jimro
__________________
"Gorsh" said Goofy as secondary explosions racked the beaten zone, "Did I do that?"

http://randomthoughtsandguns.blogspot.com/
Jimro is offline  
Old February 2, 2014, 10:43 AM   #14
Toolman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 514
I was looking for an 8mm unbarreled K98 Mauser receiver as the base for a 22-250 build. A local gunsmith asked what barrel I was going to use & I told him something like Adams & Bennett, why? He said that the threads on our barrels & receivers are cut at 60 degrees included angle and Paul Mauser threaded his barrels & receivers at 55 degrees included. He said "that's something very few 'smiths know". He said "you can put them together but it won't be right".
__________________
Crime Control. NOT Gun Control.
Toolman is offline  
Old February 2, 2014, 02:30 PM   #15
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 3,241
Disclaimer- I'm not a gunsmith and have never re-barreled a Mauser...

But I think your smith is correct, but there might be exceptions depending on where/when the action was made. Mauser actions were made in other countries than Germany, and over many years.

But I do believe most Mauser actions are the Whitworth (55 degree) 12 tpi.

I'm sure there's many gunsmiths here that will confirm or refute that.
__________________
Custom Bent Bolts and Gunstocks for the Mosin-Nagant
www.biggorillagunworks.com
tobnpr is offline  
Old February 3, 2014, 01:41 AM   #16
Mauserlance
Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2014
Posts: 25
The hard part

The hard part for me was taking my time.... If you take your time, true rcvr, true the bolt face and buy a good barrel you will be proud of your end result. This is a CG1918 m96.... Still need to bed the stock etc but I already am getting .39 moa 5 shot grps... That's a kreg SS bull in 1:8.5, bold trigger,



Mauserlance is offline  
Old February 3, 2014, 01:43 AM   #17
Mauserlance
Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2014
Posts: 25
Sorry

6.5 swede. There should be no other cal!
Mauserlance is offline  
Old February 3, 2014, 11:17 AM   #18
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,774
Yes the Mausers use a 55degree cut, and a lot of aftermarket barrels use a 60 degree cut.

Just be glad that it does work, even if you don't get the 100% thread to thread contact you would like. Still better than a P17 enfield with the square threads. The angled threads, even with a 5 degree difference, will self center the barrel in the action. The square threads of the P14/17 need the outer diameter of the threads to mate with the corresponding receiver groove to keep things tight and centered.

Jimro
__________________
"Gorsh" said Goofy as secondary explosions racked the beaten zone, "Did I do that?"

http://randomthoughtsandguns.blogspot.com/
Jimro is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11072 seconds with 7 queries