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Old January 28, 2014, 03:47 PM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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Safer hunting now available.

I heard this featured on a tech slot on the BBC as I drove home from an abysmal IPSC performance.

Anyway I heard a piece on a new gizmo that was supposed to reduce the risk of hinting accidents where people are mistaken for game in the heat of the moment and I thought some people would be interested.

It is a system that uses a combination of scope mounted lasers and reflective garments on shooting party members as I understand it. I suppose the weakness is that it does not help ID people who are not kitted up with the special clothing. It seems unrealistic to expect all hunters to buy the clothing markers in case someone has this tagging system mounted in the area.

All the same if you're in a group in dense brush it could be a good idea.

Regardless of the outcome a safe hunt has to be a good hunt!!

Here is a link to the story.
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Old January 28, 2014, 04:06 PM   #2
tahunua001
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it's kindof redundant to the 3rd rule of firearm safey, be sure of your target and beyond. if you can't see what you are shooting at then you shouldn't be shooting in the first place... nice idea though, would render blaze orange unnecessary in regions that require it.
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Old January 28, 2014, 04:28 PM   #3
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I agree but according to the stats toted on the program, many people are injured in hunting accidents and often by members of their own group and so there definitely are some who shoot while flaunting that rule, but is it others who pay the price.

One issue would be if those likely to be negligent in their shooting safety are then likely to have the safety consciousness to invest in the system...

It seems to me that those who would consider this a wise buy are probably conscientious enough to not make foolhardy shots in the first place.
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Old January 28, 2014, 05:20 PM   #4
buck460XVR
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Quote:
Originally posted by tahunua001:

nice idea though, would render blaze orange unnecessary in regions that require it
Difference is that Blaze orange does not require the use of batteries or special reflective strips. Blaze orange also does not require the pointing of a loaded gun at an unidentified target before it is identified as another hunter. In the case of a warden or LEO, this would be a felony in most areas here in the U.S.A.
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Old January 28, 2014, 05:25 PM   #5
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Part of the problem is people tend to see what they want/expect to see.
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Old January 28, 2014, 06:24 PM   #6
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A solution to a non-existent problem. At least here in the U.S.
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Old January 28, 2014, 07:48 PM   #7
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"According to the International Hunter Education Association, approximately 1,000 people in the US and Canada are accidentally shot by hunters every year, and just under a hundred of those accidents are fatalities."

Just in the US, we have some 14 million deer/elk hunters, plus small game and migratory birds.

The usual comment is "a solution, looking for a problem".
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Old January 28, 2014, 08:16 PM   #8
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Why would I expect someone who can't/won't follow the basic rules of firearms handling to be able to run/operate/follow this device?
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Old January 29, 2014, 05:04 AM   #9
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
Blaze orange also does not require the pointing of a loaded gun at an unidentified target before it is identified as another hunter.
I don't think they are pitching this as something you purposefully point at someone to see if they are human or deer.

I understand that this system is supposed to alert you that you are pointing your gun at a person, precisely because the you have already mistaken them for a deer.

Some clearly think this is not a useful thing to have, but I can't see why it does any actual harm.

It may be adopted as an additional safety measure that one group of fellow hunters decide to include to further reduce the chances of an accident.
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Last edited by Pond, James Pond; January 29, 2014 at 05:10 AM.
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Old January 29, 2014, 09:20 AM   #10
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The drawback is that everyone in the field would have to be wearing the reflective strips and have the device on their gun.
And the kind of hunter who would be the most likely to shoot somebody would have neither.
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Old January 29, 2014, 09:47 AM   #11
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Here in Pennsylvania on the opening day of deer season, we have more armed people in the woods than are in the combined armed forces.
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Old January 29, 2014, 09:53 AM   #12
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Wish they would come out with a gizmo on hunting guns that if you pointed your gun at another hunter in the field, a 'trunk monkey' came out and thumped you square in the groin.
One good application... lesson learned.
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Old January 29, 2014, 10:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pond, James Pond
It may be adopted as an additional safety measure that one group of fellow hunters decide to include to further reduce the chances of an accident.
Pond, It may also give that group of hunters a false sense of security, especially if it is possible that other groups not wearing the reflective cloth may be in the area!
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Old January 29, 2014, 10:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Why would I expect someone who can't/won't follow the basic rules of firearms handling to be able to run/operate/follow this device?

^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

As the great Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid"
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Old January 29, 2014, 11:22 AM   #15
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William Blake:All attempts at foolproofing are folly,for the genius of the fool is infinite"

Another problem I see:Crony Captialism.This begins a misguided entrepeneurs attempt at innovation..."I can remove human responsibility and replace it with expensive technology" Life is not a video game.

Enter government:"We are the government and we are here to help"

Soon,non-shooting,non-hunting politicians have an emotional headline to work with.

The people who will push it do not like guns or hunting.

Why did Ruger and S+W just stop selling to California?Another stupid idea .
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Old January 29, 2014, 11:25 AM   #16
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Wow. Typical idea of the times, which is generally backed by ignorance of the subject at hand. Let's invent a fancy gadget and make people buy special clothes, and maybe we can prevent a hunting accident.

That's way better than teaching people to identify their target as an animal before they put their scope on it, and certainly before they shoot at it. This concept is so simple, yet there are folks who ignore it. I understand that. A fancy gadget scope is not going to stop them. Everyone having to buy and wear the special clothes makes it completely unfeasible.

Quote:
Why would I expect someone who can't/won't follow the basic rules of firearms handling to be able to run/operate/follow this device?
And there you have it. I seriously doubt this device would prevent a moron from shooting into brush at movement. The target audience, the people who ignore safety rules, are not interested in this device.
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Old January 29, 2014, 11:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
"All attempts at foolproofing are folly,for the genius of the fool is infinite"

"I can remove human responsibility and replace it with expensive technology"
Good ones.
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Old January 29, 2014, 12:13 PM   #18
shortwave
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Maybe something like this should be mandated for hunters as well:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyTxnM3EkU
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Old January 29, 2014, 12:32 PM   #19
buck460XVR
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pond, James Pond:

I don't think they are pitching this as something you purposefully point at someone to see if they are human or deer.

...but how many would? Oooh, I see something, what is it? Whoops, just another hunter.

Quote:
Originally posted by Pond, James Pond:
I understand that this system is supposed to alert you that you are pointing your gun at a person, precisely because the you have already mistaken them for a deer
If you have already mistaken a human for a deer, you clearly have not identified your target. What this product may do tho, is to tell you when there may be someone directly behind the deer, in the path of your shot, that you have not seen. I think this is more the reason for accidental shootings from other members of your party than mistaking them for deer.
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Old January 29, 2014, 01:23 PM   #20
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Hunting "accidents" are definitely NOT a non-existent problem based on the millions spent each year to keep it from happening via special clothing, hunter education programs, hunter legislation, etc. However, the proposed response in the story is simply not a good solution.

Quote:
Pond, It may also give that group of hunters a false sense of security, especially if it is possible that other groups not wearing the reflective cloth may be in the area!
This is a very real problem already noted repeatedly for the blaze orange program.
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Old January 29, 2014, 02:03 PM   #21
shortwave
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Quote:
Originally posted by tahunua001:
Quote:
it's kind of redundant to the 3rd rule of firearm safey, be sure of your target and beyond
[/QUOTE]


Worth repeating over and over again.

Especially the 'and beyond' portion.
And I say that due to the fact that when that trophy of a lifetime steps out in front of us, it's very easy to get tunnel vision on the trophy and not think where the projectile is going to end up when it passes through our target.
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Old January 29, 2014, 03:27 PM   #22
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
If you have already mistaken a human for a deer, you clearly have not identified your target.
I haven't disputed that. I said as much in post #3

This is not about avoiding mistakes.
It is about putting the brakes on when a mistake has already been made and could be about to get a lot worse.

I should point out to all reading this.

I am neither for nor against this product. I can see its pros and cons and I can see them with the detachment of someone who has no vested interest.

I simply heard about it and so posted it for general consumption, but not to promote it.
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Old January 29, 2014, 03:30 PM   #23
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Thanks, Pond.
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Old January 29, 2014, 03:42 PM   #24
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
Thanks, Pond.
Not at all!

Truth is I agree with pretty much all the points that have been made so far. I just felt it may have come across as though I was particularly in favour of it.
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Old January 29, 2014, 03:54 PM   #25
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In an earlier life, I had a pack of beagles and we did a lot of rabbit hunting in the swamps and thickets of Louisiana. Lots of areas there, you couldn't see 20 yards, but we all used shotguns and could follow the progress of the dogs by ear. Many times, as many as a dozen hunters would be spread out over several acres, watching holes in the foliage or along creek banks for the rabbit that ran 50-60 yards ahead of the beagles.

The hunt-master would give a good safety briefing in the morning and insured that everyone wore hunter's orange. Lots of awareness, also a lot of fun. We had folks from pre-teens to grandfathers out there, having a ball, listening to the dogs and shooting rabbits. Great fun.

We didn't need any electronic gizmos, but I can see the utility of such a device, especially when other hunters are concealed by head-high brush.
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