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Old January 20, 2014, 07:23 PM   #26
JettaRed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyB1954
...I think the ammo hoarders are starting to let up on their sales...
Ha! No, they're broke and can't afford to buy any more.

To the OP, someone brought up that 9mm is the cheapest round to shoot other than the 22LR. That will make a big difference in how much you practice. 9mm FMJ runs around 30 cents per round for brass case ammo and as low as 22 cents per round for steel case ammo (e.g., Tula, Wolf). .380 around 40 cents per round. .40 cal somewhere in between.

Lastly, 9mm usually hold more rounds in a magazine. So if you are talking home defense, four or five more rounds in a magazine may be preferable.

You can find 9mm on-line at a number of sites. Use www.gunbot.net to search for ammo. Places like The Armory, Freedom Munitions, and High Country Ammunition are a couple good sites.

Last edited by JettaRed; January 20, 2014 at 07:32 PM.
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Old January 22, 2014, 11:53 PM   #27
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Sorry I didn't reply, I stopped getting alerts that I had replies apparently. I live in Florida, Hernando County. Within the next two weeks I'll be hitting up the range to test fire 9mm, .40 and .45. Im pretty much sticking with 9mm or .40, but going to give the .45 a test run as well. If I really like it maybe Ill look in the Kimber 1911 I was eye balling or HK USP. I did alot of research online on stopping power of 9mm vs .40 and it always came down to an equal amount of one actually being more powerful then the other and the only reason military went to 9mm was cheapness of bullet and they went to .40 because of stopping power and you should just go with .357 or 10mm blah blah blah, so Ill just pick depending on how my wrist holds up with them.
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Old January 23, 2014, 12:28 AM   #28
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9mm versus .40 is one of those annoying topics that is so fraught with emotion and fallacious debate that it's really hard to get a straightforward answer on the subject. The very raw facts with minimal editorializing, as I believe the most recent research shows go like so.

1.) In flesh, 9mm and .40 have very comparable performance
2.) .40 is slightly superior to 9mm at barrier penetration (doors, windows, walls)
3.) 9mm can be easier to shoot for some shooters due to the .40's recoil impulse that some perceive as "snappy" compared to 9mm's "poppy" or .45's "pushy".

While a lot of folks will argue passionately with pages of argument one way or another (and I like .40 so I admit I'm biased), as far as I know those are the FACTS of the two.
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Old January 23, 2014, 01:57 AM   #29
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I'm curious to see how the .40 feels. I've heard of people not liking the snappyness of it because it hurts their wrist and takes a while to get back on target. I have wide wrists measuring close to 3 inches, bone to bone, so I'm not thinking that's going to be much of a problem for me, so we will see. Only reason I am pretty much ruling out .45 is cost and I want my fiance to be able to shoot the gun as well if something were to happen when she's home alone, so she will be coming to the range with me to see if she can even handle a .40, if not then it will have to be a 9. But again we will see within the next couple weeks. Just liked to hear other people's opinions on guns and such, since I'm constantly seeing new guns I like. Such as the beretta 90-TWO Type F, even tho I prefer a steel gun, that is one sharp looking piece. Then if I decide on 9mm, theres the Beretta 96a1.
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Old January 23, 2014, 05:19 AM   #30
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With a good quality 1911 in .45 ACP, you'll find the recoil comparable to a 9mm. The .45 is a milder round than the .40.
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Old January 23, 2014, 05:42 AM   #31
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Quote:
1.) In flesh, 9mm and .40 have very comparable performance
This is not a fact nor do I believe it. Go shoot some cans or something and witness the kinetic difference in how far the cans jump for yourself. The 9mm is akin to .38 special and the .40 is akin to .357 magnum.
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Old January 23, 2014, 06:44 AM   #32
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Since you said no carry, only home defence and light range shooting, the P30L and the SIG P226 are very good choices. I'd take a look also at the HK USP and Beretta 96FS, two classics. I don't want to enter in the caliber debate.
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Old January 23, 2014, 09:52 AM   #33
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- You may need to read up on DAO, DA/SA, SAO to familiarize yourself with how they operate.
- Have an idea on how you will keep the pistol -- if for home defense, will it be chambered, cocked and locked, etc, etc.
- These things may help guide you to the gun that you would feel comfortable with at home and at the range.
------------
For primarily Fun/Range pistol, 1911 gets my vote (9mm for less ammo cost). An STI Trojan would be a solid choice .... but this is SAO.
The simple answer is a Glock 19/17. Simple operation, reliable, require little maintenance... but polymer and trigger is not as nice as 1911 SAO.
SA Xdm 5.25 would be a good choice, too.
If it must be non-polymer, then Kahr K9 - it is small but handles very well. Others to consider: Sig P series, EAA witness elite match, CZ75/85.
------------
If I am to have only 1 handgun, I would have to toss a coin to pick between a 1911 (for home/range/occasional CC) and a Kahr K9 (for home/range/CC)
-----
happy shopping.
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Old January 23, 2014, 10:28 AM   #34
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I am going to suggest the P229 Enhanced Elite. It is not as large as the P226 but it is what I would consider a full size handgun and would be great for home defense or range work. It is also available in different trigger configurations. As mentioned previously. I prefer DA/SA but your preferences might be different.

It also has a smaller sub compact counterpart (Sig P224.) Which might be attractive if you decide at a later point that you want to apply for a carry permit. It would have the same battery of arms and accepts the new P229 magazines.

At any rate. You can't go wrong with any of the firearms that you listed. They are all well made and will serve you well.

Best of luck!
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Old January 23, 2014, 11:18 AM   #35
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Well, if you're open to suggestions, with a $1000 budget, why not get BOTH......a .22lr pistol AND a 9mm pistol?

The S&W M&P series comes to mind.....with enough left over to buy ammo for both.
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Old January 23, 2014, 11:39 AM   #36
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Thank you for all replies.

The Sig p229 Enhanced Elite was the primary one I am looking at.

I looked up the DA/SA, SAO, DAO, and have no preference to DA/SA vs SAO, just rather not get DAO, and will look into the STI Trojan since it comes in .45 and 40

Looked up the Kahr K9, nice looking piece, will look into it.

I looked up the Beretta 96FS, but the 96A1 pops up automatically, maybe it's been replaced by it?
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Old January 23, 2014, 12:04 PM   #37
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The guns you are considering are all very fine firearms. But there are also very good firearms that cost less money. The importance of that in a minute.
You mentioned "stopping power" of 9MM VS 40 S&W. Without taking this thread on a tangent about the myth of "stopping power", or "knockdown power", the only real way a handgun defeats a threat is through a properly placed shot. That requires accuracy of both the firearm, and the shooter. That accuracy is gained only through practice, and familiarity with the firearm. That's where the advantage of the lower priced, but completely cappable guns come in. It allows more of the budget to be spent on ammo for practice.
It is also important that you are able to shoot a chosen caliber accurately. Some do not like the snappier recoil of the 40S&W. If shooting something that bothers you means shooting less, the desired competency with that firearm is diminished. A poorly placed shot from a 40, or 45 is never as effective as a well placed shot from a 9MM
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Old January 23, 2014, 12:32 PM   #38
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The Beretta 96A1 is the last version of the 96FS. I don't know if the 96A1 is totally replacing the 96FS. The 96A1 has a rail.
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Old January 23, 2014, 01:11 PM   #39
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40's recoil is very dependent on the particular load. The light weights (135-155) gr. seem to kick worse than the heavier weights, at least to me.
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Old January 23, 2014, 01:49 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcub
This is not a fact nor do I believe it. Go shoot some cans or something and witness the kinetic difference in how far the cans jump for yourself. The 9mm is akin to .38 special and the .40 is akin to .357 magnum.
.40 is my favorite round, I prefer it to any other for SD and HD, but all the research I've seen indicates that it does in fact have nearly identical penetration, expansion, and cavity results in bare or lightly clothed flesh as 9mm and .45. The service cartridges are all very similar. I think .40 is a bit better and it's just as easy for me to shoot, but the performance gap between it and 9 is nowhere near the gap between standard pressure .38 and .357 magnum. I think that overstates it. Similarly, I think the folks who say .40 has no advantage over the 9mm are understating it. As with practically all debates, and especially caliber wars, the truth is somewhere between extremes.
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Old January 25, 2014, 12:42 PM   #41
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Well I believe I've narrowed down to the Sig p229 Enhanced Elite and the STI Trojan 5". I really like the STI Perfect 10 but I don't have that kind of money. I also like the Tactical SS 4.0 for the picany rail, but also above my price range. I'm going to try to find a shop that has the STI Trojan and P229 so I can see which one feels better in my hand, but there's something about the STI that has me leaning to it, a certain elegance to it.
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Old January 25, 2014, 04:31 PM   #42
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You need to look at a FNH There are USA made. There FNS and FNX. I have there FNX and it is a keeper came with 3 14 Rd mag's also you can change the hand grip it has 3 changes that comes with the gun.
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Old January 25, 2014, 05:41 PM   #43
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I believe that the STI is also made in the USA. I checked out the fnh, don't much care for polymer.
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Old January 25, 2014, 09:02 PM   #44
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At a local gun show today I checked out a Sig P229 Elite and pretty much decided I'll have to have one. It feels better in my had than my FNP40, which fit me best out of a couple dozen guns I looked at before buying it.

The 229 has a wide grip which works with my big paws. I'll either go back or find one in the near future.
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Old January 26, 2014, 12:23 AM   #45
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I know what you mean about wide grip, I held a p226 tactical operations at a store and while I have big palms I have short fingers, so my fingers barely reached each other and it felt like I had no hold on the gun, even tho the clerk said I wouldn't want my fingers overlapping and the reach is fine, just didn't feel right.

On another note now that I'm looking into the STI's I really like the range master, but it's just a hair over my budget so I may save to get that over the Trojan.
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Old January 26, 2014, 07:47 AM   #46
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Well, and I'm not the first to say this, or is this the first time that I've said this, but the discussion here proves that you should not buy a car from a brochure, and you should not buy a gun without holding it.

Pick a gun that feels right, shoot it if you can, and then do the research on reliability, maintainability, and availability (i.e., does it work well, is it easy to keep running, and are the parts and accessories obtainable at a reasonable price).

Good luck, keep shooting.
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Old January 26, 2014, 01:41 PM   #47
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I'd get the sig p226 in 9mm. Sig and glock are the best handgun brands. Actually, I'd recomend the glock 17 over the sig p226 any day. It's so simple and so few moving parts that I think it'd last forever. Plus it just works. Every single time. You can get more accessories for as glock too. I think the sig would still be almost as durable and reliable as the glock tho. If you like the sig more.
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Old January 26, 2014, 01:45 PM   #48
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No experience with HK, but with Sig and nothing but happy. You seem to get more for your money with Sig too.
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Old January 26, 2014, 05:11 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David spargenator
...Sig and glock are the best handgun brands...
(You had to know this was coming!)

I won't argue that Sig and Glock are very good, and even excellent, brands. But saying they are the "best" at the exclusion of other equally good brands is simply untrue and misleading.

I can say Ruger is equally excellent and far cheaper, so that may make it actually better. Springfield has a long history of making excellent products. If a gun is consistently reliable, durable, and accurate, feels good, and easy to shoot, I think that qualifies as excellent. I will even add Bersa to that group.

I think it is easier to recommend brands not to get than to claim that one is the "best".
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Old January 26, 2014, 06:09 PM   #50
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Well it's just personal experience. Those are all the good brands I've had good experience with because that's all I've tried. I'm still kinda new to the gun world, still trying to figure out what all the most durable, reliable guns are.
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