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Old January 15, 2014, 12:45 PM   #1
geetarman
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Build or buy?

I think I have been royally bitten by the .22 bug. I have two lever action and two bolt action .22s.

I really prefer the bolt guns. I am shooting a CZ 452 trainer that has been bedded and has had a trigger job. I am also shooting a Ruger 7722 that has been pillar bedded and free floated and that rifle has also had a trigger job.

Both guns shoot just fine but I am wanting more. I am looking something better than what I have and the question is should I build from the ground up or buy a good platform and modify.

Knowing that, which way would you go? I am not wanting to go with Anschutz although review laud them.

I am seriously considering a CZ 455 bull barrel and proceed from there. The bull barrel in walnut is something around $400. The same rifle in a Manners chassis is around $850 or so.

I am not saying those are the only ones I am considering but I am asking you to give me some advice on what you would do.

The CZ trainer is just something else with the iron sights and I would kind of like to take the scope and rail that I have on that gun and put it on something like the 455 that does not have any sights and see if I can make a good rifle even better.

The Ruger is a pretty good rifle but does not shoot with the CZ. Even after the work done on it, the CZ just shoots better.

Any advice?
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Old January 15, 2014, 01:02 PM   #2
MrBorland
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oh, man, I've been kicking this around for a while myself. I've got a 452 as well. What's your budget? Any specific use?
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Old January 15, 2014, 02:02 PM   #3
geetarman
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I reckon I could spend up to about two thousand to get it pretty much right. I would probably sell the Ruger. I don't really want to spend that much and then find out the rifle is less than a stellar performer.

At my age, I am not going to be able to compete with the young blood out there. I really do like .22 for the fact that you can shoot a lot without breaking the bank and you don't have to worry about picking up brass.

What I do notice is the variability in .22 ammo. There was a fellow at the range Friday who had an old buffalo rifle ( 45-70 ) and he had installed a .22 liner that he can remove. He was telling me about competing in matches with this rifle and shooting 300 yard competition with it with open sights.

He had a target with 5 rows of 5 squares and each square was about 1/2 inch square. He shot each and every one with a single shot. Each shot was about 1/4 inch up and right. It was something to see. I was talking to him and telling him about my trials with the Ruger. and he said most .22s shoot better with standard velocity ammo than with high speed stuff. I had been shooting Federal Match, Lapua Center X, WW Standard velocity and CCI Mini Mags.

He was right. My rifle did shoot better with the Lapua followed closely by WW Standard velocity.

Bottom line for me is I am really getting interested in taking 22lr to a step up. I am looking for some tips to do that. Thanks for the response.
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Old January 15, 2014, 02:44 PM   #4
MrBorland
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Here were my thoughts, though I've still yet to do anything about it . My hesitation is simply that I know I'd like a "really good" .22 repeater, but don't have any specific application, and I couldn't justify any of these options until I convinced myself I had a real need. YMMV, though :

1. Buy a CZ452 Scout, tune the trigger, and use the receiver as a base for a build that includes a Lilja barrel (likely threaded) and a McMillan or Manners stock.

2. See #1, but use a Anschutz 54 repeater action instead of the CZ452 action.

3. Go full custom. I was thinking something like a Baity Falcon repeater. Add Lilja barrel, good trigger and bed in a good action. Another option is a tube gun (Elisio H1) using a Hall repeater action.

4. Buy a high end factory rifle. The possibilities include a Sako Finnfire Range, Anschutz MPR64, Cooper Jackson Squirrel rifle, or a good biathlon rifle with a toggle bolt. Another possibility is a Compass Lake .22LR AR15 upper to go with a really nice lower I have.

Just some food for thought.
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Old January 15, 2014, 05:12 PM   #5
geetarman
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Just so you know, the CZ455 is currently available with a Manners stock.

I am not familiar with the guns you mention. I will have to check them out. I have heard of Coopers. I think they are FAR out of what I want to spend on a .22. But. . . .I guess you never know.
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Old January 15, 2014, 05:52 PM   #6
MrBorland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geetarman
Just so you know, the CZ455 is currently available with a Manners stock
Yep. In that case, I'd just add a Lilja barrel and tune the trigger. I just figured it's just nice to have the McMillan stock option as well.

For me, the most realistic option is to rebarrel a CZ, or buy the Anschutz MPR64 or the Compass Lake upper. The M64 leaves open the option of shooting with apertures or a scope, off a bench, or using a sling or bipod in field positions. Pretty Multi-Purpose, as it was designed. It may be too heavy for Rimfire Sporter competition, though.

The CL upper is a good option if one likes aperture sights (doesn't look like they offer a detachable handle to mount a scope), and/or if one wants an "understudy" to their match-grade Service Rifle.

I really like the Sako, but they're pretty rare, and the full custom builds are gonna cost some serious coin (but that custom tube gun would be pretty awesome and versatile).

The Cooper is known as a great gun, known for it's accuracy, but it's so pretty (and expensive), I'd hate to scratch it up. And it's not as versatile as, say, the M64 or Sako.

Tough choices...

Good luck and let us know what you decide!
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Old January 15, 2014, 08:51 PM   #7
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Don't overlook the lowly Savage MK II. They are cheap, very accurate, and there's a good aftermarket for them. They are among the most accurate .22lr's around for a lot less $$$
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Old January 15, 2014, 09:21 PM   #8
dave in maine
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by no means am i an expert on the subject, however my experience has been expensive. i started with the savage and put a butload of greenbacks into it and eventually wound up with a cooper and an anchutz that's been rebarreled and restocked. my current motto. buy once cry once. it's a lot less frustrating, now if your in the market for a tricked up left handed savage 22 cal b r rifle with less than five hundred rounds through it, and three stocks. you can use my experience and save money and agrevation. dave
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Old January 16, 2014, 12:01 AM   #9
Savage99
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What are you going to use a .22 LR for?

Hunting, plinking or target competition?

If it's competition see what the experienced competitors are using near you.

Look on the NRA website for such information. Go to the match and see what they are shooting on what particular course of fire.

Here in CT we shoot on Thursdays indoor with target rifles.

In the summer we shoot at 50 and 100 yds prone.

Typical rifles are the Winchester M52, Rem. 40X and Anschutz.


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Old January 18, 2014, 06:44 AM   #10
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300 yards
Iron sights
1/2" target
.22 lr factory ammo

Bet that same guy has a bridge for sale.
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Old January 18, 2014, 07:19 AM   #11
geetarman
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It would be better to have the facts before offering an opinion.

What I said was he was shooting iron sights at 100 yards.

I saw the targets he shot. One shot per target on either 5 rows of 5 or 6 rows of 6. I just don't remember which.

He shot Eley ammunition in a single shot 45-70 rifle with a .22 barrel liner.

The barrel of this rifle looked to be about 30 inches long. Maybe more.

He hit every one of those targets a little high and a little to the right.

He does compete in 22 matches at 300 yards.

He did not mention a bridge for sale.
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Old January 18, 2014, 10:03 AM   #12
tobnpr
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Quote:
What I said was he was shooting iron sights at 100 yards.
No, actually, you didn't. Nowhere in that post did you mention 100 yards.
What you did say, was:

Quote:
He was telling me about competing in matches with this rifle and shooting 300 yard competition with it with open sights.

He had a target with 5 rows of 5 squares and each square was about 1/2 inch square. He shot each and every one with a single shot.
Sounded to me like he had pulled out a target from one of those 300 yard matches and was showing it to you.

Nonetheless, incredible shooting.
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Old January 18, 2014, 12:02 PM   #13
geetarman
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I went down to his bench after the range was called cold. He brought back his target. He was shooting at 100 yards. I was also shooting at 100 yards.

I was not very clear.

I was talking to him about his target and he told me he working on his sight adjustment and that is when he mentioned shooting at 300 yards.

I told him I could not imagine shooting 22lr at that distance. The CZ 452 trainer that I have has iron sights that I have used to hit the plates at 200 yards with no real effort. Those sights do not have enough elevation for 300 yards unless I could somehow block the rear sight up. That is exactly what the fellow I was talking too does. He has a .600 inch block that he had made to use to raise his sight up. I am sure they are shooting at big targets. I think he said something like 36 X 36 inch. That is the size of the 300 yard plate we have at my range.
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