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Old January 13, 2014, 05:45 PM   #1
skizzums
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big box stores

hello, i am about to purchase a gun at academy sports and outdoors in GA, my issue is, because of my profession, i get a delay every time i buy a gun from NICS, i have heard from others that if you get a delay status at Academy they make you wait 30 DAYS!!!!

just wondering if anyone has first-hand or second-hand knowledge of this and what have your experiences been with Academy sports and outdoors
thank you
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Old January 13, 2014, 05:48 PM   #2
Tinner666
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Request your own unique ID# from NICS. I don't know the process, but no more waiting for you after that.
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Old January 13, 2014, 05:53 PM   #3
skizzums
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really i just need to get my carry permit, but its never bothered me much because in GA they have to give you the gun after 72 if your delayed or not, to keep the feds from essentially creating a waiting period, but i heard academy doesnt follow those rules
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Old January 13, 2014, 05:53 PM   #4
Tinner666
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I Googled fro you and these came right up.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nic...sked-questions

Quote:
Frequently Asked VAF Questions
■What does UPIN stand for? Unique Personal Identification Number
■Can anyone apply for a VAF UPIN? You are encouraged to submit an appeal request first. The VAF was originally established to permit individuals to request the NICS maintain information about themselves in the VAF to prevent future erroneous denials or extended delays of a firearm transfer. The AST will refer you to the VAF upon completion of your appeal if the VAF will prevent future extended delays or erroneous denials.
■How do I use the VAF UPIN? When filling out the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Form 4473, you must place the VAF UPIN in box “9” and also advise the FFL you have a VAF UPIN.
■Once I get my UPIN, does that mean I will never be delayed or denied a firearm purchase again? Entry into the VAF will not automatically result in a proceed response on subsequent firearm purchases. A complete NICS check is still required and will result in a denial or delay if additional prohibitive or potentially prohibitive information is discovered.
http://ingunowners.com/forums/genera...unique-id.html
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Old January 13, 2014, 06:04 PM   #5
skizzums
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i am going to pass on the unique id, i will be getting my carry permit in the next 4-6 weeks and that lets you bypass any checks in georgia, i was just curious about academysports making you wait 30 days rather than checking back after 24-48 hours when i usually get cleared

im a paramedic and i have to get a FBI background checkk everytime i renew my license, and apparently anyone who has had check from FBI throws an automatic flag for NICS

regardless, my ccw will be done in probably the same amount of time it would take to get a unique ID #, plus it says that they keep your purchases on file when you do the unique, probably not an issue, but rather not if i dont have to

but i was hoping to buy this gun tomorrow, i could always just send the wife if i needed to
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Old January 13, 2014, 07:47 PM   #6
Nickel Plated
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Well technically nobody "has to" give you the gun after 72 hours of the delay. They don't even "have to" sell to you if you're approved. The law states that even after approval, it is still ultimately the FFL's decision if they want to sell to you or not. If you're approved but the FFL thinks there's something fishy about you (like you were talking to your friend on the phone inside the shop about just getting out of prison the day before for a murder charge) they can still refuse the sale.

The 72 hour limit on a "delay" simply makes it an "approval" by default. But if the shop wants to CYA and wait 30 days or until NICS gets back to them, it's their decision.
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Old January 13, 2014, 07:51 PM   #7
skizzums
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thanks nickel, that sure helps alot??

i am aware that there is not a law requiring anyone to sell you gun.........
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Old January 14, 2014, 07:52 AM   #8
2ndsojourn
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"but i was hoping to buy this gun tomorrow, i could always just send the wife if i needed to"

Well, that would be a straw purchase and illegal.
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Old January 14, 2014, 08:55 AM   #9
Panfisher
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I've been backgrounded by the FBI before and I don't get delayed, even when I bought my AR from Academy. I would go ahead and go to academy, don't give them any money until the purchase approval goes through, if it gets delayed and they say 30 day wait, simply take your business elsewhere, or wait the 30 days.
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Old January 14, 2014, 09:00 AM   #10
cecILL
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Do NOT send the wife. Why make her a felon?
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Old January 14, 2014, 09:32 AM   #11
skizzums
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not makin the wife a felon, it will be her gun that she lets me shoot sometimes, plus she has bought guns as chrstmas presents before, does that make her a felon? i actually bought my dad a nagant this christmas, am i a felon? i was undre the impression that transfers between family were all good, is that not the case?
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Old January 14, 2014, 03:08 PM   #12
carguychris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skizzums
not makin the wife a felon, it will be her gun that she lets me shoot sometimes, plus she has bought guns as chrstmas presents before, does that make her a felon? i actually bought my dad a nagant this christmas, am i a felon? i was undre the impression that transfers between family were all good, is that not the case?
Under federal law, living family members have no special standing as it relates to firearms transfers. This is a widespread and widely parroted misconception. Unless state law says otherwise, gifting a firearm to your wife or your dad is no different than gifting it to your best friend, your boss, or your garbageman.

A "legitimate gift" of a firearm is legal under federal law. In order for the transfer to be considered a legitimate gift, the firearm must be purchased with the buyer's own money, and it must be gifted with no compensation expected in return. This is explained in detail in the instructions for question 11.a. on Form 4473.

HOWEVER, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE...

It is a felony to knowingly or recklessly transfer a firearm to someone meeting the definition of a prohibited person under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d). [To put it another way, a prohibited person is someone who would have to answer answer "Yes" to any of the questions from 11.b. through 11.l. on the 4473.] Your wife presumably knows that your NICS check has been delayed. This gives her reason to suspect that you MIGHT be a prohibited person. If this turns out to be the case, she could be charged if she transfers any firearm to you.

It is a SEPARATE felony under 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(6) for a prospective buyer to lie on question 11.a. on the 4473, or any other question on the form, for that matter. This has nothing to do with whether or not the intended (or actual) recipient is a prohibited person. If she is buying the firearm FOR HERSELF with HER OWN MONEY, there is no problem. However, if she is really buying the firearm FOR YOU, she can only do it with HER MONEY, and no compensation can be expected in return. If she buys it FOR YOU WITH YOUR MONEY, she could be charged (and so could you).

It is ALSO a felony for a person without a federal firearms license to knowingly transfer a firearm to a resident of another state, or for anyone to transfer a firearm to a minor except under certain specific circumstances. (However, for the purposes of this discussion, I'll assume your wife is also a resident of GA, and is not a minor.) Additionally, applicable state laws should be followed. I am not familiar with GA firearms laws.

[Mandatory disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. This is not legal advice. Caveat emptor.]
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Last edited by carguychris; January 14, 2014 at 03:13 PM. Reason: info added
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Old January 20, 2014, 10:50 PM   #13
Ruler
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I've purchased 2 guns from Academy with no waits besides the basic wait while they call the ATF 1888 number.

The only things that ruin gun purchases are: felonies or domestic disputes. they rarely bother with misdemeanors, only felonies, domestic disputes and federal offenses.
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Old January 21, 2014, 06:48 PM   #14
JettaRed
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Straw purchase is purchasing a firearm for a prohibited person. Purchasing as a bonafides gift is not necessarily a straw purchase. However, DO NOT make any decision based on what you read on a forum. Ask a lawyer or go to the source. In this case, ask the Academy store before you buy.
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Old January 21, 2014, 07:43 PM   #15
carguychris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JettaRed
Straw purchase is purchasing a firearm for a prohibited person.
No, it isn't. This is another commonly parroted misconception.

Transferring a firearm to a prohibited person is a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(d).

A straw purchase is "knowingly... mak[ing] any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive [an] importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale". This is a separate and discrete crime under 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(6). It makes no difference whether or not the recipient may lawfully possess the firearm.

The distinction is important to understand, as some well-meaning folks who would easily pass a NICS check have initiated straw purchases because they don't want any "paper" connecting them to the gun, often because their tinfoil hats are rather tightly fitted. Even if the recipient may lawfully possess the firearm, THIS IS STILL A FEDERAL CRIME.

I suggest Googling "18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(6) straw purchase". You should find some ATF documents that discuss this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JettaRed
Purchasing as a bonafides gift is not necessarily a straw purchase.
A bonafide gift IS legal and IS NOT a straw purchase. No ambivalent weasel wording is necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JettaRed
However, DO NOT make any decision based on what you read on a forum. Ask a lawyer or go to the source. In this case, ask the Academy store before you buy.
Asking a lawyer could be good advice, but I would warn you against asking detailed legal questions from the clerk at Academy, or any other store for that matter. Clerks at gun stores are generally supposed to follow strict procedures regarding the sale, which usually means NOT trying to second-guess the meaning of the questions and instructions on the Form 4473. Some clerks will try to do it anyway, but you won't necessarily get better answers than what you'll get on an Internet forum.
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Last edited by carguychris; January 22, 2014 at 09:53 AM. Reason: minor reword...
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Old January 22, 2014, 09:03 AM   #16
Skans
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Quote:
Request your own unique ID# from NICS. I don't know the process, but no more waiting for you after that.
It's a bit of a pain in the rear. If guns are your hobby, then you might want to consider this. If you are only going to buy a gun a couple of times in your lifetime, then don't bother.

I ended up getting a NICS UPIN because my transactions were sometimes getting hung up. Each time this happened, it was cleared after 3 business days and then I could pick up the gun. The rule is (as I remember it) that if your NICS gets hung up, NICS is given time to check you out further for I believe 3 business days and then report back to the dealer if you are cleared or denied. If NICS fails to report back to the dealer within this time frame, then the dealer can transfer the firearm to you (no risk to the dealer), but if for some reason there is a problem in your background, BATFE can (I understand through local LE) require that you turn over the gun to them.

If the dealer holds your gun for 30 days - this is store policy, not law.

To get a UPIN, you will need to get the application from BATFE, fill it out, submit it with fingerprint card (and I think you need a photo, but I don't remember). When your UPIN application is approved (takes 2 weeks to a month) you will get a number that you can use on the 4473 and NICS checks will sail through with no problem.
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Old January 24, 2014, 12:13 AM   #17
medalguy
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That's basically correct. Note that after three business days the dealer CAN deliver the gun to you. They do not have to complete the sale if they don't want to. Some dealers have a policy of not delivering a gun UNTIL they receive an approval. If they don't get the approval, they won't deliver even after the three day period.
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