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Old January 13, 2014, 12:43 AM   #26
Nanuk
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There is always more to the story. I always try to apologize if I did something wrong to upset the other driver. Sometimes that diffuses it right there and the whole thing can be avoided. I have also just allowed people to drive on raging and essentially ignored them. I observe and ensure that is all they do, if it progresses past that point I will do what I need to do. I have some pretty good
offensive driving training and experience, a 75 MPH PITT works nice. I like what Clint Smith said "Drive or shoot."
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Old January 13, 2014, 05:54 AM   #27
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There are a lot of unreasonable people with issues out there. Just look at the news or even the local police blotter. Its not hard to bump into the wrong person even at 2am.
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Old January 13, 2014, 08:40 AM   #28
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theres alot to read on this thread, so im sure if this was said, but get up to a high speed and slam the brakes, only damage your going to sustain is fenders being pushed into your rear wheels and possible gas tank if its very high speed, but his car will most likely be inoperable, at the very least his radiator will be blown and he will be overheating in a very short time
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Old January 13, 2014, 09:55 AM   #29
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Guess some of those replying have never experienced a rear end collision.
Definitely not going to be my choice.
Twice I have been the intended victim of someone trying to run me off the road.
Both times with no previous interaction or warning.
And in broad daylight on regular roads, with plenty of other cars around.
Both times I just ran away from them, thanks to a few curves in the road, the poor driving skills of the other guy, and the alcohol or drugs they had probably been using.
One missed the curve entirely and landed in a mud hole.
The other one plumb disappeared somewhere and never exited the curve.
Must have found a wormhole into another universe or something.
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Old January 13, 2014, 11:34 AM   #30
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well obviuosly getting away would be everyones first choice, but after ten miles of trying(and being shot at), what would you do if that wasnt an option? lets say hes in a new stingray and your in a 1991 hyundai
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Old January 13, 2014, 12:12 PM   #31
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Not to put the blame on the victim, but I have to wonder what he did to **** off his killer.
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Old January 13, 2014, 01:11 PM   #32
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There was another story a couple of months ago, it got reported as 2 road-ragers got into a shootout and killed each other. The few facts available suggest that it was 1 RR'er who followed someone into a carwash and murdered him; the mortally wounded victim managed to get HIS gun out of the car and shot his attacker about 5 times (no misses!) and killed him.

There's a point to this... society seems to think if you do anything other than roll-over-and-die you were not really a victim but a mutual combatant. Only the police are given broad discretion regarding use-of-force in self defense. It may be better to "be tried by 12 than carried by 6", but how do you defend yourself in time to actually save yourself? If someone is trying to run you off the road and you bump them and send them out of control into a oak tree, YOU now are going to be seen as a murdering road rage idiot.

It's a conundrum.
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Old January 13, 2014, 03:19 PM   #33
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Local news story; Fire Marshal....

About 4/5 years ago, a local fire marshal got into a heated road rage dispute while on duty in his own private vehicle. The marshal had a valid CCW & a pistol.
His yelling & screaming turned into a assault by the other driver. The fire marshal drew his pistol & fired claiming self defense.
He faced formal criminal charges for wounding the other driver in the dispute but I think the State Atty & prosecutors decided to drop the case.
The road rage driver pled no contest to striking the fire marshal in the incident.

Almost anyone can get into a road rage event. The point is to stay calm, be mature & be alert to other motorists who you might think are reckless, aggressive or intoxicated.

edit; due to content, corrections of details

Last edited by ClydeFrog; January 13, 2014 at 03:26 PM.
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Old January 13, 2014, 03:56 PM   #34
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These stories are getting downright scary.
Anyone have a low mileage Kenilworth they want to sell?
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Old January 13, 2014, 04:59 PM   #35
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Horsepower is the key to escape...
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Old January 13, 2014, 05:13 PM   #36
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Defending yourself over reckless endangerment in a trail would be difficult unless you were run over a few times. If there are no witnesses I would spice it up a bit.
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Old January 13, 2014, 06:05 PM   #37
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I let the chase get up to 65-70 on a two-lane and suddenly did a 180. Never even touched a ditch. I couldn't say the same for the other guy though. All the dust and debris I saw in the review suggests he may have flipped.

I studied Chitwood and have many hours of practice. Even a 180 in reverse is easy if you practice. Just don't touch the brake pedal!
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Old January 13, 2014, 06:39 PM   #38
g.willikers
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Did you use the emergency brake to do the 180?
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Old January 13, 2014, 07:01 PM   #39
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I had some trashy Eclipse try to run me off the road. Easiest think to do is stop. If they get out to confront you burn outta there.

If the occupant was shooting that's a different story. changing direction with right hand turns to put as much distance/objects between you two would be helpful.

It could be a gamble but getting up to a good speed and hitting the brakes might work in your favor. His front end will be crunched airbags will go off. Ideally your car my be able to limp away while theirs is broken. Cars are designed to crumple and such for safety.

FWD can sustain pretty much any kind rear dmg as the front will just drag it along. But I've been rear ended in a RWD and mine worked sorta his was toast.

Depending on the cars involved pushing someones car around isn't rocket science. your front axle to their rear accelerate and turn in. that'll send em spinning.

This might sound kind of horrible but bring the attack if possible to an area fun of people. Rural road is one thing. pull into a gas station with six or seven people there is another. Might cause them to think twice.

If possible depending on the makes if your vehicle can go somewhere they cannot follow do that? Either they give up or get stuck trying to follow? Off road. Jumping a large curb.

I would agree with above keep the speed as fast as you can but with in the realm of your control. if you doing 115 on ice and spin out into a snow bank that is not gonna help better to go slower.

I guess another thing to consider is ammunition the aggressor has. Guessing what probably fifty rounds would be reasonable to assume? fullsized gun 2 mags? Perhaps more. Doubtful unless you are really unlucky. If u can keep somewhat safe he is going to run out eventually.
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Old January 13, 2014, 07:03 PM   #40
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Again based on all the local coverage: the victim was a car enthusiast, he knew how to drive, and he had a pretty extensive record of speeding violations. In no way am I implying that he deserved this, by all local accounts he was a great guy.

I have been in several pretty bad cases of road rage. The last one was a couple of years ago and it got really ugly after I thoughtlessly gave the finger to a guy who was tailgating me. He tried to run me off the road and I ended up stuck at an intersection with him next to me. I had to swallow my pride and avoid any eye contact while he stood outside my car and screamed at me. Maybe it was my willingness to let him feel like a big man, or maybe it was the fact that he saw me staring straight ahead with my phone in one hand and a tire iron in the other.

Either way I knew that I got lucky. Now I pull over and let every aggressive driver pass me and find someone else to rage on.
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Old January 13, 2014, 11:38 PM   #41
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^Good advice.^
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Old January 14, 2014, 12:06 AM   #42
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These kinds of things are what's really got me interested in getting concealed carry, as I drive quite a bit between state lines and have seen a number of people on the interstates and in the cities who gave me pause.
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Old January 14, 2014, 12:29 AM   #43
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I think if one were to have a car gun or use there CCW while driving, perhaps some of the new bonded JHPs like Hornady Critical Duty would be nice to have. They are advertised to expand but hold together to defeat different barriers such as auto glass and door panels, etc. One never knows if the only option would be to shoot through either your own windshield or theirs etc.
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Old January 14, 2014, 03:02 AM   #44
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last thought was "Why didn't I bring a good gun on this trip?"

I am thinking his last thought was "Why didn't I bring a good gun on this trip?"
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Old January 14, 2014, 03:29 AM   #45
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Back in 2002, I had some crazy nut come after me on the SR51 in Phoenix. I was 20 at the time, and didn't have a gun in the car. I was stopped at a red light, waiting to turn onto the freeway, and the light turned green. He didn't go. I honked to get his attention, then switched to the outer turn lane and passed him since he was still going slowly.

Well, something snapped in his head or something and he was coming after me, matching my every move and trying to pull up on my left side with his passenger window down. I did everything I could to avoid him. Fortunately I was driving a 2001 V6 Cougar, a fairly quick car, but I was still a fairly inexperienced driver. It's a miracle I didn't get into a wreck trying to avoid him, as I tailgated other vehicles closely in any gap I could find to put semis and other large vehicles between me and him. Eventually I got a straightaway and his older vehicle couldn't keep up with mine, and he exited. I estimate he'd chased me for around 5 miles, at speeds approaching 100 mph.

After that I started carrying my Ruger P90 in the door pouch. The large handgun had been a gift from my father a few years prior, and its leather case was a perfect fit for the door pouch and was completely invisible from the outside with the doors closed. I could unzip it one-handed if I had to. Never had to use it, but came close about 18 months ago when some road rager actually got out of his car and stormed up to my passenger window. Had he tried to break that window, his life would have been forfeit as I would have feared for the life of my passenger at that point.
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Old January 14, 2014, 09:14 AM   #46
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Quote:
Did you use the emergency brake to do the 180?
Yes, E-Brake and turn wheel at same time. Brake lights won't come on and alert the perp. Practice at slow spped in a large parking lot. Make sure your direction of travel is AWAY from any poles, trees, curbs, etc. while learning.

I found out that kids shouldn't be in the car when doing the reverse 180. My 9 yo daughter was in the car when I went down a dead end valley. She was strapped into the regular seatbelts.
I reversed and at about 40, cut the wheel to the right and went to neutral/then drive as it swapped ends. She came out of the seat and I caught her with my right arm as she went over the front seat. She was hysterically laughing and even though she said she wouldn't, she told mom right away what happened.

Practice in snow or dirt, or a wet parking lot. Offside front wheel often comes off the ground about a foot on dry pavement. Watch a scene on TV. The roads are wet down before stunts. Take not of previous skidmarks in those scenes and you'll see it's practiced 'in place'.

Every winter and in mud, etc., I practice. Because of the practice, I can maneuver radically in an emergency lane change, or skid and I'm down the road before I'm able to think about what had just happened.
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Old January 14, 2014, 09:16 AM   #47
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Again based on all the local coverage: the victim was a car enthusiast, he knew how to drive, and he had a pretty extensive record of speeding violations. In no way am I implying that he deserved this, by all local accounts he was a great guy.
That only means he drove fast. Master the 4-wheel drift and get to where you're as comfortable driving sideways and backwards and steering with the drive wheels and you can out run them nearly every time. Often without breaking the speed limit if you can get on a winding road. A straightaway chase will get you nowhere.
I taught my son these tricks and he's a state trooper and nobody has gotten away from im yet, though I might give him a race for his money day for laughs.


Quote:
I have been in several pretty bad cases of road rage. The last one was a couple of years ago and it got really ugly after I thoughtlessly gave the finger to a guy who was tailgating me. He tried to run me off the road and I ended up stuck at an intersection with him next to me. I had to swallow my pride and avoid any eye contact while he stood outside my car and screamed at me. Maybe it was my willingness to let him feel like a big man, or maybe it was the fact that he saw me staring straight ahead with my phone in one hand and a tire iron in the other.

Either way I knew that I got lucky. Now I pull over and let every aggressive driver pass me and find someone else to rage on.
That's the way to do it.
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Old January 14, 2014, 04:27 PM   #48
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I am not so sure trying to maneuver your car to the rear is such a good idea. Yes it puts you where it's harder for the other guy to shoot, but it surrenders all initiative, the lead driver can now force your vehicle to stop and then he has all the time in the world for much better shots then he had chasing you.
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Old January 14, 2014, 06:46 PM   #49
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In this particular case he was on the interstate, so turning wouldn't be an option (if there wasn't as exit), and "four wheel drifting" wouldn't have really done much.
It has been in the news a lot up here, and I've had a hard time thinking of a realistic solution. Even if he'd had a gun, it's got to be close to impossible to shoot a gun one handed and backwards while trying to call the police and maintain control of a vehicle.
I think maybe the biggest lesson is to drive passively and not respond/escalate when other people get aggressive.
I've often thought a LED "sorry about that" sign you could activate on the reader window would be useful for when you unintentionally cut people off.
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Old January 14, 2014, 07:20 PM   #50
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New vehicle horns, projected images....

I agree with parts of the last post.
Aside from safe driving & common sense/good judgement, a few improvements or modifications could help motorists too.

I was thinking that major auto makers(GM, Ford, Toyota, etc) could have new digital or computerized horn signals so motorists can honk different simple messages to each other to convey information.
"I'm backing up." "Thank you." "I'm changing lanes/passing." "My vehicle is disabled, need help." etc.
Some drivers blare their car stereos so horns or any alarm won't help.
US car makers & the auto industry in general is notorious for avoiding or lobbying against new safety features.
Would these simple steps help drivers or motorists? Sure. Will it happen anytime soon? I highly doubt it.

I'd add too, don't think road rage events or aggressive drivers are the only problem.
The former US Surgeon General; Richard Corona(a SF medic in SE Asia & trained SWAT officer) had a subject attack him as he rushed to a traffic accident to render aid. Corona was forced to shoot the violent man who attacked him. Corona was investigated by law enforcement but later cleared. The topic did come up during his formal conformation hearings before he took the US Surgeon General post.
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