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Old January 6, 2014, 10:09 AM   #1
Scrumbag
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Federal .223 Rem Ammo for Deer

Hello folks,

am looking for a .223 Rem deer round. .223 is a bit light for deer, but I would like to be able to feed my foxing rifle (CZ 527 with a 1:9 Twist) a round that can take small deer.

I like the idea of using a relatively heavy bullet and Federal seem to do a few bullet weights in the 60gr range which look interesting.

So, anyone use them? Be interested to hear your thoughts.

ATB,

Scrummy
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Old January 6, 2014, 12:06 PM   #2
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I've shot a few deer with a .22-250, but consider even that cartridge marginal.

IMHO, the .223 for deer requires a very cool-headed, capable shooter, the right bullet, and good conditions, preferably under 200 yards.
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Old January 6, 2014, 12:15 PM   #3
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I would use as heavy as bullet as possible for deer with a .223. I feel this round is very underestimated. There is a show on discovery of natives in Alaska taking caribou with an AR15... Dead right there. I'm sure shot placement was key.
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Old January 6, 2014, 01:22 PM   #4
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I wouldn't even consider the scenario of shooting deer with a .223. Sure you might kill it, but the chances of wounding it are just overwhelming. Get a bigger gun and do it properly.
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Old January 6, 2014, 02:04 PM   #5
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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FWIW: 223 is quite capable. But requires better than average shot placement by its shooter on deer. I'm sure you already know that.
Since this thread reads you (do not) reload and use Federal brand. My suggestion: Check out Black Hills ammo. I shoot a Model 7 Rem in 223 it has a slow twist 1-12 so I get OK groups with heavier bullets. But~ Oh does my rifle shine when it comes to B/H's 55 TSX & 52 gr. match.
I do reload for my 223's but?

a bit of info on this (link) that may help in your decision. You won't be disappointed when using Black Hills. NO SIR!! new or remanufactured.

http://blackhillsammo.wordpress.com/
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Old January 6, 2014, 03:20 PM   #6
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Nosler partitions 60 grains, or Barnes TSX 55 grain and up. Assuming that your rifle shoots them accurately. Accuracy and shot placement are critical but with the lower recoil, shot placement within distance parameters is easier. The round will do the job as long as you do yours which is the decision of whether or not to shoot and bullet placement. I have killed deer with my AR (60 Nos Partition) and am in the process of working up a load for my Barnes 55 TSX's, have passed on several shots simply because of angle, distance, or just didn't feel right, and the last time this year simply because I didn't want to clean a deer!, had absolutely no doubt of the outcome if I had taken the shot.
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Old January 6, 2014, 10:51 PM   #7
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Some people claim they will use a .223 for deer, I for one, won't even let someone hunt my land with anything smaller than a .243/6mm. Now, several people are correct that it does require better shot placement but with adrenaline pumping, the risk of a lost/injured animal increases. That's just my view as a land owner.
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Old January 6, 2014, 11:52 PM   #8
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I use Hornady 55 grain box ammo, but I only use my AR for close walking around shots in really bad weather. Not unusual to have one stand up right in front of you. Long range (Over 100) I would think twice.
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Old January 7, 2014, 03:49 AM   #9
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Hang on fellas, slow down.

I'm in Europe and shooting small deer as per the UK regulations on calibre.

Target species will be

Roe deer: 2'6" at the shoulder and 35-75lb live weight
ReevesMuntjac: 1'8" at the shoulder and 20-40lb live weight
Chinese Water Deer: 18-22" at the shoulder, 20-30lb live weight

So, the .223 will be used mainly for foxing and plinking. However, I want to have the option of using the .223 for these small deer when out fox shooting.

(Usually if specifically out after deer I use my 7x64 Brenneke)

ATB,

Scrummy
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Old January 7, 2014, 11:21 AM   #10
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A 223 shooting bullets designed for big game will easily kill any deer on the planet. All rounds have range limitations and the 223 is probably best at 100-150, but could be used farther under ideal conditions.

Stay away from FMJ and bullets designed for varmit hunting. With a 1:9 twist I'd shoot something 60 gr or heavier with a conventional bullet. One of the Barnes TTSX bullets would probably be ideal, but I'd use 50-55 gr bullets with copper bullets. It will be fine.
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Old January 7, 2014, 11:38 AM   #11
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I havnt tried this in my .223 yet but the Winchester supreme silver ballistic tips are a nasty, explosive round. Some people complain about the meat damage from guns such as 30-06 and .300 win mag but with a .223 that might be what you need.
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Old January 7, 2014, 11:42 AM   #12
2damnold4this
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Federal Fusion 62 grain should work just fine for the deer you will be hunting.
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Old January 10, 2014, 05:04 AM   #13
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"Federal Fusion 62 grain should work just fine for the deer you will be hunting. "

Thanks 2damnold! Nice to know of someone reading and answering the question!

Have a great weekend!
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Old January 10, 2014, 05:46 AM   #14
ligonierbill
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Always a controversy, and I used to be on the "No" side. Lots of real world experience coming in says a good 60-65 grain bullet will do the job if you keep the range reasonable. I load 65 Sierra Gamekings. Many favor 60 Nosler Partitions. I don't know what Federal is loading, but if it is a premium bullet, you should be good to go.
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Old January 10, 2014, 04:44 PM   #15
DennisCA
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Ok - I'll jump in

Personnely I wouldn't use a .223 on deer but I know a lot people who do and it works just fine. I agree with jmr40; keep your shots to 150 yards and choose your shots carefully!
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Old January 10, 2014, 07:59 PM   #16
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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For those little European deer you mentioned. You could get by with a 22 LR_
Curious. A little off topic. But what is the average cost of a hunting license over there {if you don't mind me asking} and are there any unusual rules you have to abide by?
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Old January 12, 2014, 03:56 PM   #17
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"For those little European deer you mentioned. You could get by with a 22 LR"

Ah , but not stay within the Law...

A little off topic. But what is the average cost of a hunting license over there {if you don't mind me asking} and are there any unusual rules you have to abide by?

In the UK there are no hunting licenses. What you do need to do however is convince your local police that you are suitable to own a firearm and have good reason (Member of a target club, land over which you have permission to hunt deer etc) to own a rifle.

What you may use (the law specifies spec bullet weight and / or MV & ME but this is the nub of it):

In Scotland for Roe:
.22 CF and up
Red, Sika & Fallow: .243W and up

In England & Wales
Chinese Water Deer and Muntjac
.22 CF and up

Fallow, Red, Sika & Roe
.243W and up

Note Depending on which side of the border your Roe is standing you must use minimal different things to shoot it...

Now, to get the right to shoot deer.

Basically, deer in the UK belong to on-one. What you own is the right to "take" deer (Either kill or capture). This is all in private ownership. (Even in the case of state owned land, the right to take deer is leased out as if both parties were private).


If you want the full detail, google is your friend, my friend

(This is a very lengthy and archaic, disorganised subject).

ATB,

Scrummy
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Old January 12, 2014, 09:09 PM   #18
stolivar
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I used to be a nay sayer

But I have found it does a good job. I have shot 7 deer with winchester 64 grain.

All 7 hit the ground DRT. Two of them was nice size bucks.


steve
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Old January 13, 2014, 03:07 AM   #19
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Thanks Stolivar,

I would like to try the Winchester but our distributor is a real pain and using Winchester ammo makes your rifle difficult to feed.

(I quite like some of Winchester's ammo line up, just hard to consistently buy )
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Old January 13, 2014, 12:12 PM   #20
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While not legal in Colorado, I have no problem letting my daughter use a .223 for deer when I take her hunting in Oklahoma. .223 is perfectly legal there as long as you use a 55 grain or heavier bullet. I let her shoot Barnes Vortex ammunition using the 55 grain TSX and it has worked well so far. Two years hunting now and two dead dear, bot one shot each.

Here she is at nine with her first deer 141 yards, .223 Rem Stevens 200.


Here she is at 10 with her second deer 116 yards, .223 Rem Stevens 200.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mxsailor803
Some people claim they will use a .223 for deer, I for one, won't even let someone hunt my land with anything smaller than a .243/6mm. Now, several people are correct that it does require better shot placement but with adrenaline pumping, the risk of a lost/injured animal increases. That's just my view as a land owner.
It is your right as a landowner as well to require larger rifles, and I'm not picking on you as several other have echoed your comment. However, I hate the comment that a .223 requires better shot placement, by yourself and several others in this thread. Regardless of bullet size if you make a poor shot your going to loose an animal or at the very least a long tracking job and recovery effort. Bullet diameter never makes up for a poor job of putting the bullet where it belongs.

I used a 6mm-222 Rem Mag (6X47 Rem) to shoot my deer this year. It's a 6mm would you allow me to shoot deer on your land with that? I mean it fits your requirement of .243/6mm, and it pushes a 80 grain bullet at 2880 fps, and has nearly 1200 ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards. Is that enough for your deer? According to my state of Colorado that combination is perfectly legal to hunt elk, but I don't think I'll try it anytime soon.

I know for a fact it was easier for my daughter to shoot the .223 well and make better shots than having her use a .243 Win or .250 Savage, even when she was excited. She shot it much better from field positions than she did any other of the rifle cartridges I mentioned. I would love for her to use a larger cartridge but not before she is ready, I wouldn't be doing my job as a father by forcing her to use a rifle she wasn't ready for. It's my job to ensure her success if she is going to enjoy hunting, and letting her use the .223 did that for her.
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Old January 13, 2014, 12:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Target species will be

Roe deer: 2'6" at the shoulder and 35-75lb live weight
ReevesMuntjac: 1'8" at the shoulder and 20-40lb live weight
Chinese Water Deer: 18-22" at the shoulder, 20-30lb live weight
For the latter two (and smaller roe deer), I'd worry about destroying the animal in the process of killing it ..... but then again, I hunt deer in order to eat them ....

A light bullet at 3K f/sec will have you endlessly picking bullet and bone fragments out of your tiny steaks and chops .....
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Old January 13, 2014, 11:15 PM   #22
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Scrummy,
In October of this year my daughter killed a 100pound white tailed deer using Federal Fusion 62 grain ammo. The deer was broadside at 71 yards, the round broke a rib on the way in, passed through the deer, broke another rib and stopped in the skin on the other side. The bullet was recovered, mushroomed as expected but intact in the sense that it retained virtually all it's weight. It did not shatter and spread bits of itself about. If you can get Federal Fusion Ammo over there use it. The deer my daughter shot never took another step, you should be pleased with the performance of this round on Roe Deer.
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Old January 14, 2014, 12:07 AM   #23
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I've used Winchester 64 grain Razorback XT for the last few years for hogs and even killed a few deer when opportunity presented. Worked great for me.
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Old January 14, 2014, 12:20 AM   #24
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Google Federal V-Shok .223 ammo and pick your fancy.
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Old January 17, 2014, 04:24 AM   #25
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Thanks for that folks. Currently using the Norma Oryx 55gr which is a good bullet, just fancy something a bit heavier
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