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Old January 3, 2014, 03:11 PM   #1
buster1210
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Long range shooting

Looking to get into long range shooting matches. Any help much appreciated. Such as scope selection and caliber preferences. Also gun preferences or modifications. Sorry if this is too vague of a question
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Old January 4, 2014, 10:53 AM   #2
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Go to Youtube and check out Sniper 101. Guy has a series of videos specifically for this. Seems to know his chit. (although I disagree with him about fluting. lol )
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Old January 4, 2014, 11:04 AM   #3
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^ Good advice.

"long range" means so many things to so many people. Some think long range is 200 yards, some not until 1000 yards. There is High Power, F Class, sniper matches, Enduros, etc. Best thing is to find the local folks who do these types of matches and go check them out. I have 3 different "long range" set-ups, and they are all for different purposes. not transferring very well to the other specializations.

That aside, a .308 bolt gun capable of 1 MOA and a 10x Super Sniper scope is always a good place to start working on the requisite skill set.
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Old January 12, 2014, 10:04 AM   #4
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Std7mag, why do you disagree with TiborasaurusRex's regarding fluting a barrel?
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Old January 12, 2014, 10:09 AM   #5
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How long range?
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Old January 12, 2014, 10:14 AM   #6
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Since any brand of shooting requires lots of rounds fired downrange, you could start with .22 at 50 to 100 yards.
Lots of skill development there transfers to centerfire.
And developing very tight groups with centerfire at 100 yards should keep you busy for a long time.
No reason to look further until that's accomplished.
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Old January 12, 2014, 11:17 AM   #7
old roper
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Buster12, Most Benchrest matches will always list groups and have equipment list here one on Long Range 1000yds.
http://www.midwestbenchrest.com/2013...0Benchrest.pdf
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Old January 12, 2014, 11:28 AM   #8
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To cut through the chase of if you can or can't, If you have or have not, The equipment I believe is what you are asking about. The rest is un important.
Start with a know caliber for shooting long distance accurate. Lot's of calibers will shoot long distance, but few shoot long distance with the accuracy you will want. Some will push the 7MM and such, while they are long range rifles they lack the accuracy you are seeking. Look into something down the line of 6MM or 6.5 ect. As for scope choices-The world will chime in on this one. Most will run in the 32 power range or higher. Straight power or adjustable is your choice . Straight has it's benefits,but lacks the ability to power down on hot days when mirage is a issue. The rest of the equipment is not cheap also. Front and rear rest ( depending on your choice ) can be around $600.00 to $1000.00.
Reloading comes to a new pinnacle also. Components are not cheap. Since in long range shooting Hold over is NOT a option you need to make sure you run with a scope that has a proven record of tracking correct. You need to know exactly how many clicks to go from 300 to 600 to 1000 or 1200 yards. It can not be a guessing game. Once you have all the pcs you need, it becomes range time and practice. After that just go for it. What you will find is the people you will be shooting with ( if you join a club ) will be some of the nicest,helpful people you have ever bumped into,always willing to share info and time to help you. As will the people in here that shoot long range. I must say it is a whole new meaning of the words ,Challenging and fun.

Keep us posted.
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Old January 12, 2014, 01:27 PM   #9
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I've got to chime in. I don't disagree but you have different type matches.

IBS/NBRSA is a group shoot they post groups and score which is different way to win also you can pull up result and see what's being used.

F-Class is a score shoot you never see listing of equipment and you have to know target size @ yardage figure out what group size may be.

You can get on this site http://fcwc-usa.org/results/

Click on result and you only get score results


Your going to get different views base on what someone is shooting (match). I'm a group shooter so what I would pick for LR since it's only one yardage(1000yds) may be different from what F-Class would use. Most group 1000yd match has light heavy rifle you can shoot light in heavy class but not heavy in light. You can win/place with group and score.

If I want to find out something I'll get on LR BR site shooters/gunsmith post there and good to stay current.

If you could find F-Class or IBS match close by give you a better idea and most time someone my have use rifle willing to sell and my help with reloading etc.

Well good luck
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Old January 12, 2014, 02:10 PM   #10
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Take a look at the 6.5-284 for long range
accuracy and minimal recoil if equipped
with heavy long bull barrel and a solid
stock.
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Old January 12, 2014, 02:23 PM   #11
Bart B.
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While the hardware selection these days is way more extensive and expensive than what top scoring long range shooters used 40 years ago (before F-Class and benchrest), The accuracy they get with the most expensive stuff today is no better than what factory sporter actions squared up and fitted with the best barrels did back then. One thing has changed; smallest group records are getting smaller; either single or aggregate. But that's a statistical anomoly that's bound to happen anyway.

Lets say you've got the best rifle and ammo that when tested in an accuracy cradle with 100% return to battery rifle aiming that shoots 2 inches at 600 yards and 5 inches at 1000 for 20 to 30 consecutive shots in a row.

Fired in a benchrest match at either range and you've doped the wind corrections right, it'll do almost the same level of accuracy.

In prone slung up with rests in F-class matches, one can shoot them into about 20 to 20 percent larger groups for as many shots.

Slung up in prone without rests, the best folks will shoot their 20 to 30 shot string into a group 3 to 4 times as big. Such is life when your pulse beat bounces the rifle around aiming inside a 6/10ths MOA area and you cannot put it back into shooting position exactly the same for each shot after reloading.

That link to Midwest Benchrest Matches is excellent to see what group sizes are in a 1000-yard match. Look at the aggregate group scores; they're the average of several few-shot groups. 1/4th to 1/3 of the individual groups shot in an agg. are bigger than the average. Look at the individual group sizes for targets 1, 2, 3 and so on. If a composite of all fired groups were made, its extreme spread is larger than the biggest single group.
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Old January 12, 2014, 06:08 PM   #12
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To the OP- As Bart and Old Roper pointed out- My advice is based on FTR and F Class shooting. They are right, I guess I should have asked first what you are planning to do-Sorry.
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Old January 12, 2014, 07:25 PM   #13
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As many others have noted, it would help to know what type of long range shooting matches you're talking about. If we're talking about amateur DM courses where you're just trying to ring 10" gongs between 300 and 600 yards, you don't need anything fancy.

If you are new to the long distance world there are a lot of things to look at. Do you reload? If you don't reload then you will definitely want to choose a caliber that is readily found at a reasonable price. The inherent accuracy that 6mm ppc and 6.5 rounds are capable of really won't matter as much when you're just learning to shoot at 500+ yards, especially when you need to put rounds down range for practice and good ammo in these calibers will cost twice as much as decent practice .308 ammo. For this reason, I recommend you start with a common caliber. If you reload it's not as big of an issue, but even then a common caliber still has it's benefits.

I also espouse the same beliefs in frugality about a rifle. Many may chime in or disagree, however a Savage rifle is kind of hard to beat. They're relatively inexpensive and almost always 1moa accurate right of the box with the right ammo. This is good enough to learn on and a Savage is not hard to upgrade. An amateur, who is careful, pays attention to detail, and is somewhat mechanicaly inclined can do a barrel/caliber change. Soo... if you get good and want a more inherently accurate round than .308 then you can change calibers. As for glass... if you're limited on money then I would stick to a fixed power scope with target turrets and really good glass. I cut my teeth on a 10x fixed Bushnell Elite 3200 that I bought for 200 bucks. While I would advise starting off with a little better glass than that if you're trying to shoot at 1000 yards, it'll do. You don't have to drop 5k to get started long range shooting, or even competing (on the amateur level, of course). You can get started on a shoestring budget, but what you buy now can save you money in the future (the ability to change barrels and work on the Savage means you'll get more service out of it as opposed to having to buy another rifle later).
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Old January 12, 2014, 09:29 PM   #14
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In a Br 1000yd match like I post they shot 3 target Light /Heavy with was a two day match. First day was light match they had six assigned relays per target and soon as first 6 relays finish then they start on second target relay when that's finish they run 3rd target relay. It's pretty much all day shoot and condition will vary. They will total each group size on those (3) targets and divide by number of targets (3) that is agg (average) and lowest agg wins.

2nd day was the heavy and they had 5 relay per target.

If you take the F-Class Palma rifle and open they shoot 800,900 and 1000yds it's score shoot which is a point system by target size so you add points and nothing they do has anything to do with group size at a match.

What you shoot at a match is what you get doesn't matter if it's score or group and I've learned only one person pulling the trigger.
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Old January 12, 2014, 09:43 PM   #15
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Sounds like fun Roper. I have a few of the locals trying to talk me into BR,but right now it just is not my pickle. Maybe when I get to old to get up and down off the ground. I think everyone that has ever thought of shooting Long Range should give it a shot. It is a blast.
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Old January 13, 2014, 06:14 AM   #16
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5whisky says if we're talking about amateur DM courses where you're just trying to ring 10" gongs between 300 and 600 yards, you don't need anything fancy.

I say that if one wants to ring 10" gongs at 600 yards with a 90% hit rate, they'll need a rifle and ammo that shoots no worse than 5" at 600.

Check out the NRA High Power Rule Book for what's allowed in different types of competition in long range matches:

http://competitions.nra.org/document...R/hpr-book.pdf

For the benchrest disciplines, check the rule books for equipment and types of competition in:

http://nbrsa.org/

http://internationalbenchrest.com/do...vised_2012.pdf

The most often mistake I've seen people make when getting a rifle and ammo for long range shooting is basing their choice on accuracy produced at 100 yards. A rifle and ammo that shoots 1 MOA at 100 yards will not shoot 1 MOA at 1000. It'll easily be 2 to 3 MOA at 1000. Group size does not remain the same subtended angle all the way down range. The small spread of muzzle velocity and the bullet's BC plus subtle air currents and density open up 100-yard groups about 10% to 15% or more for each 100 yards past the first 100.

There is an exception, however, but don't count on it. Some rifle and ammo combinations shoot more accurate at 1000 yards than they do at 600 yards. That's caused by the bullets exiting the muzzle on its upswing due to barrel whip just before reaching its uppermost angle. Slower bullets leave later than faster ones and their greater drop down range is compensated for by the higher angle they leave at.
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Old January 13, 2014, 07:00 AM   #17
4runnerman
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The most often mistake I've seen people make when getting a rifle and ammo for long range shooting is basing their choice on accuracy produced at 100 yards. A rifle and ammo that shoots 1 MOA at 100 yards will not shoot 1 MOA at 1000. It'll easily be 2 to 3 MOA at 1000. Group size does not remain the same subtended angle all the way down range. The small spread of muzzle velocity and the bullet's BC plus subtle air currents and density open up 100-yard groups about 10% to 15% or more for each 100 yards past the first 100.

This is very true. All load work should be done at 300 yards or better if possible. I have a bunch of 308 loads that will do sub MOA at 100 yards,but stretch them to 300 or more and they go south.
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Old May 2, 2014, 11:21 PM   #18
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Barrett .50 cal

Im thinking about getting a Barrett Model 99. Single shot, bolt action .50 cal BMG, max range 2600m, max eff range 1800m (a mile is just over 1600m), eventually. However I will probably get a Remington model 700 30-06 first. Its more or less the same weapon, just smaller. They're both bolt action, single shot, long range rifles. I would like to get better at my long range shooting, although I have never shot over 800m. Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions. Ranged weapons have always been a passion of mine, so any and all ranged weapons enthusiasts are welcome to offer their wealth of knowledge and experience.
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Old May 3, 2014, 06:25 AM   #19
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First off, I wouldn't start with a .30-06; a cartridge that dropped off the list of accurate ones for long range matches in the 1960's.

What type of matches will you shoot in? A 50 caliber BMG rifle is not good for shooting off ones shoulder in the prone position shooting at bullseye targets. And for NRA long range matches, caliber has to be under 35.

Savage probably makes the most accurate commercial long range rifles these days. One in .308 Win will be allowed in the most types of long range matches.
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Old May 3, 2014, 07:50 AM   #20
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Also as far as the 50BMG goes, many ranges do not allow 50's at their range here on the east coast.
Just something to keep in mind.
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Old May 3, 2014, 08:47 AM   #21
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50 cal here match information http://www.fcsa.org/


Most LR matches have some type membership requirements and match cost.


I would go to some local matches first find something you like, talk to match director tell him your new and interesting in getting started. I sure won't buy anything till you figure out what type matches you like they do vary from score type which is a point match vs group type.

I started BR with factory class then moved up purchased used rifle then moved up to having them build.

Well good luck
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