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Old December 31, 2013, 05:55 PM   #26
dogtown tom
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Sierra280 ....As for giving the police more powerful semi or select fire weapons, there is simply no need.
Absolute malarkey.
Did you look at the video clip I posted?
Please answer my question:
Quote:
Watch this video and tell us how you would feel if that was your son or daughter in the squad car armed with a only stick or six shot revolver:
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Old December 31, 2013, 06:09 PM   #27
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After listening to that 200 round fusillade they unleashed at the pressure cooker jerk in the sailboat last summer, I just assumed they were already gunned up. That the citizens of Boston (cradle of Liberty) need well armed police in lieu of their forfeited self defense rights is a real possibility. Now if we could only figure out a way to get those well-armed officers to where they are needed in time to do any good! I'm sure glad our guys have them. APD/ BCSD is pretty damned impressive as a quick reaction force, as they recently demonstrated when confronted by an AK look alike. Be prepared is good advice.

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Old December 31, 2013, 06:14 PM   #28
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Strafer, some of Boston PD do have AR's, like the SWAT units. Just not beat or patrol cops.
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Old January 1, 2014, 01:13 AM   #29
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I would be opposed to it simply because of the $2,500 price tag; more than double the price of a Colt AR-15 with iron sights. Add a decent optic and you're still 600 to a thousand dollars too high. And that's retail.
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Old January 1, 2014, 02:17 AM   #30
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Unless I'm mistaken, police purchase contracts for weapons usually include armorer's courses, replacement parts, etc. That may be factored into the cost.
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Old January 1, 2014, 03:56 AM   #31
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Even if Boston is a AW restrictive State the gangs there still have AR's and AK's they steal them and bring them across state borders, and The Police are the ones that have to stop them with a pistol. You try that and see how long you last. Remember the bank robbery shootout in North Hollywood. Those maggots had fully automatic AK variants shooting 7.62X39mm ammo against shotguns and 9mm's and did I mention they were fully covered with armor including their legs.
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Old January 1, 2014, 12:13 PM   #32
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2% with rifles - that may be. However, we see a significant number of highly intensive crimes with long arms.

That most domestics may be folks popping away with hanguns, doesn't negate the need to combat the nut or high end bank robber with a long arm.
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Old January 1, 2014, 12:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osirus82
I agree that the police should have access, training and assault rifles available for the police officers on patrol.
Keep in mind that nobody is talking about assault rifles here. By definition, an "assault rifle" is capable of full-auto or burst fire. But these are just AR-15s being talked about here, which are semi-auto only.

Sorry to harp on incorrect terminology, but incorrect terminology adds to the ignorance that fuels mass support for the "assault weapons" ban and such. The article linked here even refers to AR-15s as "machine guns". A huge amount of people in this country believe that an "assault weapons" ban will ban machine guns and that the AR-15 is full-auto. Even Bloomberg and Obama have been quoted within the last year as saying the AR-15 is a full-auto weapon. The last thing we need to be doing is adding to that ignorance by calling AR-15s "assault rifles" ourselves.
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Old January 1, 2014, 05:36 PM   #34
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If the citizens cannot have them neither should the police force. Period.
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Old January 1, 2014, 10:11 PM   #35
dogtown tom
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Nickel Plated ....What happened to the whole "Only 2% of crimes are committed with rifles" thing we keep throwing around? Hardly seems like enough crimes to me.
Well, being that the majority of crimes are committed without any firearm whatsoever...........do you advocate police not carrying a gun at all?
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Old January 1, 2014, 10:25 PM   #36
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That's silly comparison. Period.

Quote:
EdInk If the citizens cannot have them neither should the police force. Period.
Using that line of reasoning:
If citizens cannot write traffic tickets, neither should the police.....right?
If citizens cannot prescribe medications, neither should MD's....right?
If citizens cannot perform root canals, neither should dentists....right?

"Citizens" are completely free to vote by the way..........if you elect anti's, expect these kind of laws.

Give the cops the tools they need to stay alive.
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Old January 1, 2014, 11:49 PM   #37
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Side point....

The "we should be armed just like the cops" argument reminds me of a Youtube clip I saw of a guy driving around badgering uniformed LE officers about the state seatbelt laws.

The "concerned citizen" demanded(my term) the police officers tell him why they drove with no seatbelts.
If I were a cop, I wouldn't be very civil or polite with the citizen as a few of the recorded LE were.
In my location, sworn LE officers on regular duty(on duty) do not need to wear safety belts with the vehicle is in motion by state law(motor vehicle code).

Are these cops "above the law"? No.
Use of seat belts or safety equipment issues are sometimes LE union issues or the subject of dispute with elected officials/police boards.
Similar arguments & disputes are made about weapons/use of force policy.

Clyde
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Old January 2, 2014, 12:03 AM   #38
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They are just AR-15's, not Humvee mounted M2 machine guns with API rounds or a rocket launcher. As bcarver mentioned this is in Massachusetts so I'm not 100% shocked.
That's pretty-much what was mobilized, along with armored fighting vehicles, when the city was locked-down while searching for one, possibly armed teenager. My concern would be when and where the ARs would be used, rather than how many were available.
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Old January 2, 2014, 12:38 AM   #39
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Ah heck, just give them some friendly looking Mini-14s and call it a day. At least they don't cost $2,500...
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Old January 2, 2014, 01:09 AM   #40
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If I were a cop, I wouldn't be very civil or polite with the citizen as a few of the recorded LE were.
In my location, sworn LE officers on regular duty(on duty) do not need to wear safety belts with the vehicle is in motion by state law(motor vehicle code). ClydeFrog
Now to play the devils advocate, Should a NASCAR driver in a ZR-1 Corvette be pulled over for doing 90mph in a 70mph zone? I feel a professional Race Car driver is much more qualified to drive at high speeds than a police officer. But I have heard that "Thats a risk LEOs have to take" (driving fast/no seat belt)...and thats a bunch of Malarky in my book. Seatbelts save lives, yes, but I guarantee if the LEO wasnt wearing their seat belt in a crash, their insurance or the city would still pay out...


That being said, I have also witnessed police officers dramatically breaking the speed limit with out their lights on... So explain how they are not above the law?

Now to the OP's question, I honestly have no problem with LEOs having in their patrol cars an AR-15 variant of some sort and a shotgun. Just as civilians can have these types of firearms, I think a LEO should have the proper tools available for the situation at hand.
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Old January 2, 2014, 02:20 AM   #41
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incident

I thought the big California/LA shootouts settled all this?
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Old January 2, 2014, 11:26 AM   #42
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It's about hit probability as much as anything.

Given the same skill level, an individual will have a better chance of getting a good hit with a long arm than that same individual with a handgun.

Fewer misses is a good thing for everyone except a badguy.
Quote:
In my location, sworn LE officers on regular duty(on duty) do not need to wear safety belts with the vehicle is in motion by state law(motor vehicle code).
Interesting. There are a good number of agencies whose policies, regardless of law, require the use of seatbelts in Service vehicles. Even going to the point of refusing to pay out death benefits if one is killed in a motor vehicle accident while not wearing a seat belt.
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Old January 2, 2014, 05:42 PM   #43
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Vehicles/SOPs, weapons ....

As a side note, many sworn LE agencies allow personnel to ride-drive without safety belts but more & more are adding dashcams/DV units to record any traffic incidents or disputes.
I for one, would not wear a seat belt or restraint on duty. It's not uncommon for bad guys or traffic stops to turn very ugly very quickly. I would not want to be physically attached to a motor vehicle in a critical incident.

A young police officer in my urban area was shot doing a traffic stop when two armed thugs bolted from a vehicle as the cop started the stop. He was hit in the lower abdomen & returned fire quickly(P226R 9x19mm; Ranger T/T Series 127gr +P+ JHP), wounding one of his attackers.

Going back to the SBSs/ARs, sworn LE as first responders, need the tools & weapons to act quickly. This saves lives.
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Old January 2, 2014, 06:05 PM   #44
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SWAT has an interesting article this month on long distance shots with handguns.

Here's something to think about - where I work (a nice target for a rampage), my building (full of gun free students and faculty) is about 100 meters from end to end down a straight hall. Might be reasonable if a rapidly responding officer could have an easier gun to make a shot down that hallway.
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Old January 3, 2014, 02:29 AM   #45
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Under the plan, according to MyFoxBoston.com, the city would buy 33 AR-15 rifles, at $2,500 apiece. They would go to two trained officers in all 11 districts of Boston.
I'm curious what AR15 they are buying For $2500 each...

That's a little pricey for 1 M4, unless they are buying some top-end rifles or accesorizing them with expensive optics.

They could buy 2 Colt M4's for that price and have money left for ammo
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Old January 3, 2014, 03:02 AM   #46
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Before I was sent to L.A. for the Olympics I practiced with my Model 19 4" at 100 yards using WW 145 grain Silvertips. I was using the neck on a B-27 silhouette as my aiming point and all rounds impacted the upper chest.
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Old January 3, 2014, 10:23 AM   #47
Glenn E. Meyer
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Most of us can hit a B-27 with a Glock at 100 yards with a touch of practice. Doing it under stress and faced with a nut with a long arm - would you rather have a rifle?
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Old January 3, 2014, 04:36 PM   #48
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Scoped rifle....

I'd opt for a scoped rifle.

I meant to add too that most US law enforcement/public safety vehicles have modified safety equipment or upgrades too over standard models.
Look online at the NYPD 2020 police vehicle.

Clyde
PS; FWIW, restraints or no, traffic related accidents kill more sworn US law enforcement than guns/lethal force per year.
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Old January 3, 2014, 04:53 PM   #49
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The police here carry MP5/s and H&K G36 with no problems, I am surprised its an issue with some in America.
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Old January 3, 2014, 05:18 PM   #50
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I say give em the tools to do the job at hand.

Teaching LE officers response to an active shooter courses has shown me that ar/m4/whatever flavor type weapons are a MUST have item. Nobody wants to go into an active shooter environment at a school armed with a handgun or shotgun.

Precise shot placement with enough horsepower to defeat ad hoc armor is whats needed in these events.

Remember there are long hallways and courtyards to deal with. All mixed in with tight corrners and locker rooms. WITH innocent victims running around. A shotgun is NOT the correct platform to deal with this problem. A well set up AR will solve the problem better then most

IMHO
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