The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 30, 2013, 11:54 PM   #1
k511
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 455
AR vs AK...pistols

Long story short, I'm torn between the two...which would you choose and why?
Purpose is just for fun, I already have firearms to fill about every nitch there is...
k511 is offline  
Old December 31, 2013, 12:54 AM   #2
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 1,430
I have a Drako (AK pistol) that I really like. It is it's pretty heavy with a 30 or 100 round magazine, but how many pistols have that capacity, and the 30 mag can be a great hand hold.
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابي
TXAZ is offline  
Old December 31, 2013, 01:49 AM   #3
mellow_c
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,159
I'd go with the AK just because of ammo costs.
mellow_c is offline  
Old December 31, 2013, 03:20 AM   #4
745SW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Location: California
Posts: 276
I think the AK platform is better suited as a short gun rather than the AR. Not very long ago I traded/swapped away a very short barreled Olympic AR, probably a 12” barrel with very long flash thingy, to a familiar that was never shot. Sometime afterward we went into some distant desert area in the night and I took along a never shot Intratec AB 10 with a 2” barrel while he had the said AR. While both would fire, neither would cycle with 9mm WWB and, I think, Federal American Eagle 5.56.

The likely cause was too light ammo I suppose. Call me spoiled but I like to think my arms would run with virtually anything I feed it. I parted with all of my short AR’s and Intratec’s leaving only the full size 20” barrel and fixed stock versions. My AK’s aren’t going anywhere.

Another aspect of the AK I find appealing is the super low bore axis relative to the pistol grip. Eventually hope to eliminate the fixed butt stock of the AK with something and still be legit.
745SW is offline  
Old December 31, 2013, 04:11 AM   #5
WeedWacker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2006
Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,532
with the AR pistol platform you can get a pseudo cheek weld with a carbine length buffer tube. It's more practical than the flat back of the AK receiver, anyway. If I were looking to eventually SBR the thing I'd get the AK in 7.62 because of ammo. If I could have anything and logistics didn't matter it would be the AR in .300 BLK as a pistol while I wait for the SBR form to clear.
__________________
- Weed
Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation.
9mm vs 45 ACP? The answer is 42.
WeedWacker is offline  
Old December 31, 2013, 05:23 AM   #6
kcub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 2,020
Aren't AR pistols longer due to the tube sticking out the back? Thus AK is better if you want to carry in a laptop bag in public surrepticiously.
kcub is offline  
Old December 31, 2013, 10:07 AM   #7
Sharkbite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 650
AR pistol chambered in 300 blkout. Add a Sig brace to the tube and youve got a pistol that is just as effective as a SBR (without the paperwork BS)

And a cartridge that works well in a short barrel. Both the 223 and x39 lose alot out of barrels shorter then about 14"

Thats the reason people claim the Blkout is better then the x39. In short barrels (9" or so) the 300 blk shines. I cant get pics of mine to load but its the cats meow for a little "rifle"
Sharkbite is offline  
Old December 31, 2013, 10:10 AM   #8
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,895
If you have to ask this question, then you better get one of each. While you still can.
Skans is offline  
Old December 31, 2013, 02:37 PM   #9
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 12,542
As I reload 223, I vote for the AR.
chris in va is offline  
Old January 3, 2014, 05:16 AM   #10
Justice06RR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2010
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,269
^ Chris, there are AK's in 5.56 also

This is really a toss-up. You will just have to pick which one you think is better in your hands and which platform you want to go with.

I've handled and shot both AR and AK pistols and like them both.

I own a Draco 12" AK pistol for about a year now and I like it very much. The 12" chrome-lined barrel still gives great ballistics out of a very compact package. I believe my Draco AK measures at a very compact 22" total length IIRC. Using a sling to stabilize the AK when shooting and it is very effective with that method.

An equivalent AR pistol will normally be have a longer OAL because of the receiver extension. You'd need to go really short on the barrel (maybe 7.5") on an AR pistol if you want a compact gun.
Justice06RR is offline  
Old January 3, 2014, 06:23 AM   #11
skizzums
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2013
Location: Douglasville, Ga
Posts: 1,879
depends, if you wanna save a ton on ammo and go the 545x45 route, but i hear suplus is just about dried up, to me it would really depend on caliber choice, i would persoally want either the 223 or the 762x39, if you build an AR pistol your out about 700$ if you the cheap route, AK pistol is around 400$ on centerfire rifle systems

so just depends on your budget and what caliber you want, personally i feel you could get full size ak ranges out of an AR pistol,and thats the route i would go



but they also make the ak pistol with a pseudo buffer tube for support just like the ar pistol
http://www.jgsales.com/yugo-zastava-....-p-63024.html


if you go AR you can get a 7inch upper from model1sales for 350$
__________________
My head is bloody, but unbowed
skizzums is online now  
Old January 3, 2014, 02:04 PM   #12
JD0x0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2013
Posts: 907
IMO AK. Cheap ammo. The 7.62x39 works better in an extremely short barrel than the 5.56 IMO. You tend to lose more velocity with the small-bore 5.56, so now you're shooting light bullets at unimpressive velocities, rather than heavy bullets, at unimpressive velocities. From what I can tell velocity will be fairly close, the 5.56 shooting maybe 100-200fps faster, with bullets less than HALF the weight of the 7.62x39
The AK should also be shorter with an equal length barrel. They both will have a fair bit of muzzle blast, but according to someone who owns both AR and AK pistols, the AR apparently has more muzzle blast.

According to BBTI a 7'' barrel in .223 will fire a 55grain bullet just under 2200fps
According to chrono'd ammo from a 7'' AK pistol using Brown Bear 7.62x39 7'' pistol velocities are just under 2000fps.
This gives you roughly. 591ft-lbs muzzle energy from the 7'' 5.56AR
and 1093ft-lbs of muzzle energy from a 7'' AK
That's over 500ft/lbs difference in equal length barrels.
JD0x0 is offline  
Old January 3, 2014, 11:34 PM   #13
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,397
positive

Ok, I'm gonna stay positive. You can get one, they're a hoot to shoot (probably), its your money, and as Elmer Keith stated "I'm for any sport that burns powder". OK

Elmer had his opinions though, so here's mine....other than novelty, what is the attraction of these AK/AR handguns? I can't think of anything I might attempt with one, that I might not accomplish better with a SBR or a pistol.

Stated that to a local LEO acquaintance and he started on about w/ a dot it was a "100 yd weapon" and on and on. I ain't buyin' it.

So if you got one, other than the hoot factor, and the fact that "you can", which I understand, does it serve a purpose in your arsenal?
bamaranger is offline  
Old January 4, 2014, 01:34 AM   #14
BornToLooze
Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2013
Posts: 80
I had a Rossi Ranch Hand (pistol version of Winchester Model 92) and after checking out a bump in the night it is a lot easier to handle than a full size rifle. Also with an AR or AK pistol it would give you something to shoot while you're waiting on your SBR tax stamp.
BornToLooze is offline  
Old January 4, 2014, 02:40 AM   #15
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger
what is the attraction of these AK/AR handguns? I can't think of anything I might attempt with one, that I might not accomplish better with a SBR or a pistol.
That's what's so great about the SIG SB15 "arm brace", now you can have an AR or AK pistol that functions just like an SBR without the registrations, tax stamp, and possession restrictions.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old January 4, 2014, 06:47 AM   #16
crashxl
Member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2014
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger View Post
Stated that to a local LEO acquaintance and he started on about w/ a dot it was a "100 yd weapon" and on and on. I ain't buyin' it.

An ar-15, ak47, or ak74 with a red dot is easily a 300 yd weapon.
crashxl is offline  
Old January 4, 2014, 09:53 PM   #17
skizzums
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2013
Location: Douglasville, Ga
Posts: 1,879
yes, any of those with a dot is def at least a 100yd gun, i would also go as far as to say 300yd on the 223
__________________
My head is bloody, but unbowed
skizzums is online now  
Old January 4, 2014, 10:13 PM   #18
Sharkbite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 650
Remember... We are talking about pistol length barrels here. Ive all but given up on 223/556 barrels less the 12" (14 is better).

All the short AK's ive handled were chop jobs done in the Stan. Ran ok with the ports opened up but no velocity data to be had. Nice in a hilux w/o a stock on it through

If you really want a GREAT platform do an AR in 300blk with a 9" barrel and a sig brace. Cant beat it for shoot ability... Size... Performance....

You can get smaller but you give up ALOT of umph (is that a word?)
Sharkbite is offline  
Old January 4, 2014, 11:12 PM   #19
crashxl
Member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2014
Posts: 51
Sorry but I just don't understand the point of a sbr. If you want a compact rifle just get a ar-15 with a collapsible stock. I you don't like ar-15's then get a bull pup of your choice. Either way you end up with a compact package that still has full length barrel.
crashxl is offline  
Old January 5, 2014, 04:27 AM   #20
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite
Ive all but given up on 223/556 barrels less the 12"
I agree 100%. I would never own a 5.56 shorter than 12"; you just lose too much velocity in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite
If you really want a GREAT platform do an AR in 300blk with a 9" barrel
This! A supersonic 300 Blackout round still is very effective out of a 9" barrel. And that length is perfect for subsonic ammo with a suppressor, though supersonic ammo works great with a suppressor too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite
You can get smaller but you give up ALOT of umph (is that a word?)
You mean "umph" or "alot"? "Oomph" is a real word, but "a lot" is actually a two-word phrase, not a single word.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old January 5, 2014, 09:18 AM   #21
stmichps
Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2007
Location: USA/Michigan/Battle Creek
Posts: 49
While I have both, I personally would recommend the AR only cause of the versatility of the platform. If you want a 5.56, 300 Blk, 7.62 Rus, 450 SOCOM, 50 Beowulf or anything in between. You probably can have a pistol upper made in it.





In addition I would suggest you look up a Tac Con 3MR Trigger for the AR platform.

www.tacfirecon.com



By the way they also make a Sig arm brace () for the AK pistols as well...

Last edited by stmichps; January 7, 2014 at 12:48 PM.
stmichps is offline  
Old January 5, 2014, 04:54 PM   #22
k511
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 455
Well,,I went the AK route..here's my m92 krinkov. Came with the aftermarket parts new in box as well as a wood set that's needs refinishing... have 300 rounds threw it already with zero problems...accuracy using the single point sling and pushing against it combined with the AFG and red dot is better than I thought ( I'm only shooting out to 50 yards). But so far its a kick in the pants!! And that's what I got it for, fun...
k511 is offline  
Old January 5, 2014, 11:20 PM   #23
skizzums
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2013
Location: Douglasville, Ga
Posts: 1,879
cool gun k511, i will prob go the ar route though, i would perfer the ak pistol for power, but too expensive to get brass to reload, ive tried the whole drilling out the berdan primers and nail polisih on the boxer primers, but too much hassle and too iffy on the safety aspect
and unfortuneatly, if i cant reload for it, i wont buy it, but thats is still a bad-arse gun, that would be my goto HD gun fo sho
__________________
My head is bloody, but unbowed
skizzums is online now  
Old January 6, 2014, 03:06 AM   #24
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,397
300 yds

Still ain't buyin' it. An AK pistol, with a dot, getting consistent, practical, hits at now a claimed 300 yds. I've watched to many guys miss a 10-12" gong at 100-150 yds with a full sized AK's and AR's , off a support (under competition stress) to believe that a dot makes one of these giant pistols more accurate and manageable.

Can somebody post a pic of this Sig brace thing???
bamaranger is offline  
Old January 6, 2014, 04:15 AM   #25
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger
Can somebody post a pic of this Sig brace thing???
Stmichpis already posted a pic of one in post #21.

My buddy has a 9" 300 Blackout pistol with a SIG arm brace. Of course we don't use it as an arm brace (nobody does), we just shoulder it like it's an SBR. And it's not too hard to hit a 12" steel plate at 300 yards with supersonic ammo using an EOTech sight with the 300 Blackout reticle.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12315 seconds with 7 queries