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Old December 30, 2013, 07:08 PM   #1
Jo6pak
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Precision rimfires: CZ vs. Savage (vs. Savage)

I have the urge to buy a more accurate .22 to replace my old trusty 10/22. The Ruger gets the job done on bunnies and squirrels and is accurate enough for range fun, but I would like to get something that will allow me to really get the most accuracy form the little rimfire round. But it still has to be sturdy enough to go afield and put critters in the stewpot.

I have narrowed it down to 3 contenders...

Savage MkII FV-SR.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MARKIIFVSR
+With the 16.5" bbl and 5.5lb weight, this the lightest and most compact of the three. I'm a big fan of small, lightweight rifles for hunting and fully outfitted this rifle would be only slightly heavier than my 10/22.
>Although I would probably never fit a suppressor, the threaded barrel would allow me to fit a muzzle break to protect the muzzle during field use. (Obviously not needed, but nice to have)
- Lacks the target style stock of the other rifles I am considering
+About 1/2 the cost of the other 2 contenders @ about $260. I could add the cost of upgrading the stock and still probably come out ahead.
- Not a big fan of the Savage magazines or mag release system. The mags seem a bit unfinished and the release is a bit clumsy while wearing gloves
+ I love the Savage Accu-trigger system.
? Will the shorter 16.5" barrel have a significant detriment to accuracy compared to the longer ~20" tubes?
?Can I get a target style stock? Will the TR stock fit the FV-SR? I assume it will drop right in, but I'm not sure.

Savage MkII TR
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MARKIITR
> I have a bit of trigger time with this model as a buddy has one. Which is how I know about the Accu-Trigger, magazines and mag release.
+ Love the target style stock. I fits perfectly while benched, and the more vertical grip also makes it more comfortable to carry afield.
- A bit heavier than I would prefer for hunting. Not that I would be put out to carry it, but I really like lightweight rifles for tromping up and down in coulee country.
- At just over $500, it is on the upper edge of what I want to spend once I add optics, etc.

CZ 455 Varmit Tacticool
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/...mintTacticool/
> This one is ther great unknown to me. I've heard really great things about CZ rifles, but haven't had the privilege to really check one out.
+ A shade lighter and shorter than the MkII TR. Probaly not enough to really notice, but there it is.
+ Stock looks similar to MkII TR.
? How are the magazines. Anyone have pics, comments?
? Mag release system. Ergos, ease of use, positive locking?
? Trigger. I'm a big fan of the Savage Accu-trigger. Is the CZ on par or better.
- Not American made. I'm not religious about buying American, but it is nice to do when I can.
? Anyone with hands-on experience with the CZ?


Opinions, experience, trigger time with any or all of the above?
Please help me decide.
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Old December 30, 2013, 07:44 PM   #2
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I'm not being snarky, but I think you can delete "Not made in America" as a discriminator for this group. Savage rimfires are made in Canada (Lakefield, Ontario).

Otherwise, I not sure I can help much. I have savage and cz centerfires and they both shoot equally well. However, the CZ's always seem to be better quality with better fit and finish. Savage's always seemed like project rifles. I would choose a CZ. However, this is one of these happy situations where any of the three choices, is a good one.

If you haven't already, you may want to visit rimfirecentral.com, also.
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Old December 30, 2013, 08:20 PM   #3
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I lean toward the Savage !!!

I like the composition of your post and the stated expectations will be exceeded by all three. The CZ, shows better construction; more along the lines of the Ruger 77/22. As stated, the CZ is 100% European and yes, the Savage barrel and receiver, is Canadian but the rest, is American and I'm not sure just how much of the assembly is American but by my measure it's enough. .....

The Accu-trigger is a better trigger than the CZ's.

A new stock for the Savage MkII FV-SR. will run you about $200.00 for a thumbhole and less, for a standard. Yes, the mags are all steel and this standard design has been around, for a long time. You forgot note the cheap sheet metal trigger guard, on the CZ where the Savage, is cast. ...

None of the pros and cons, will keep you from getting dinner on the table.
Save also gives me more options than I need and they are great fokls to deal with ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 30, 2013, 08:29 PM   #4
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One other option is to put some money into your 10/22. Those things can be made to shoot far better than you'd ever believe. I used on in Sportsman't Team Challenge that would shoot a ten shot group at 100yds on a dead calm day of just over 1moa. I'm talking 1.2-1.4 TEN SHOT GROUP. Not only will they shoot but they're fun to build up....stock, barrel, bedding, trigger, etc. Just a thought.
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Old December 30, 2013, 08:34 PM   #5
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A CZ trigger can be improved substantially with a simple drop in kit. I really like my 452 and, I'm sorry, Savage makes some of the ugliest rifles in the market.

P.S.- my CZ can hit aspirins at 50 yds.
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Old December 30, 2013, 08:34 PM   #6
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I've considered upgrading the 10/22 and understand the potential. But, for my own interests I'd like to go to a bolt action.
I'm also considering gifting the 10/22 to my niece.

Do the CZs have a tang safety?
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Old December 30, 2013, 08:37 PM   #7
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The 452 has a safety on the bolt ala winchester M-70.
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Old December 30, 2013, 08:58 PM   #8
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Very Bias statement here,,, But I have never seen anything ( standard) out shoot a Savage. I have seen lot's of pretty rifles and lot's of expensive rifles,but they don''t out shoot that darn Ugly Savage. It comes down to looks or accuracy. You can have both,but it will cost. Now as I said this is my very Bias opinion based on first hand knowledge shooting against them every weekend.
Used to own remmy's,winchester's, and one Tika. Traded them all for Savages about 3 or 4 years ago. Best move I ever made. Now never shot a Savage in a 22,but got to believe peas of a pod flow together. Got 2 Ruger 10/22 and am very happy with them.
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Old December 30, 2013, 09:16 PM   #9
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your money, your call !!!

Here is an afterthought; If I could shoot better by spending a few more bucks, I'd be foolish not to do so. I have owned and shot both and can honestly say that the CZ's will not outshoot the Savages. The Savages are very serviceable, reliable, accurate and shoot better than I am capable of shooting. ....

I never tell a man, what to do with his money or his wife ......

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 31, 2013, 05:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Opinions, experience, trigger time with any or all of the above?
Please help me decide.
I own a Savage MkII BV and a CZ 452 in 22wmr. Not exactly what you're looking at, but I can give a CZ vs Savage comparison.

Savage: looks pretty good with its laminated stock. Love the Accutrigger. Very consistent accuracy, really likes MiniMags.

CZ: beautiful rifle! Nicely figured walnut stock. The finishing on the wood and metal is 1st class. Feels like a high quality centerfire. Excellent accuracy.

Since wood isn't a factor and you're looking at a utilitarian rifle, I think I'd go with the Savage in your case. But either way, you'll be happy.
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Old December 31, 2013, 10:17 AM   #11
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For the money you are willing to spend, have you thought about just building up the 10/22? A better barrel and trigger job can make a world of difference. I do have a Savage MKII. Granted I also have 3 10/22's and I wouldn't sell or trade one for the other. Think about it like this, the 10/22 is the Chevy small block of the gun world. You can do anything from a full auto SBR suppressed to benchrest target gun. I think you should check out rimfirecentral.com and browse around and really see what can be done with both rifles.
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Old December 31, 2013, 12:37 PM   #12
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I'd say you are pretty well on top of the pros and cons. Accuracy should be comparable between brands although I don't have much experience with a barrel as short as your #1 choice. The stock on that #1 is nothing to write home about but I prefer that style for shooting away from the bench.


CZs have a real heft and feel more solid to me than Savages although I can't speak to the quality of their composite stocks. A wood stocked CZ would be a great hand me down to grandkids. Negatives: Scope mounting options are more limited because of the 11mm dovetail. Mags are very solid but run close to $35 a piece.
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Old January 1, 2014, 10:04 AM   #13
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My Cz452 outshoots my Mark II by a pretty large margin.
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Old January 1, 2014, 12:59 PM   #14
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I guess I don't see how a Savage is ugly, but that's just me. I do think the CZ's are nice but don't see the price difference in owning one over the Savage, so, I bought a Savage.

I wouldn't turn down owning a CZ, but I'm not buying one either.

FWIW I own a 917 not a 22
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Old January 1, 2014, 01:31 PM   #15
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I love Savage center fires, but they don't make a .22 that I would want to own. Compared to CZ, their actions are cheaply made.

On the other hand, I own a CZ453 Varmint and, short of the Win52s and Anschutz target rifles I used to compete with, it is the best I have shot.
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Old January 1, 2014, 02:52 PM   #16
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@mxsailor803= see post #6

@Willie D= great point about the scope mount. I didn't consider that issue.

My buddies Savage MkII-TR will shoot 50yd, five-shot groups into one ragged hole with Eley Match ammo.

Right now, I am leaning toward the Savage FV-SR and swapping the stock.
But keep the opinions coming
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Old January 1, 2014, 03:16 PM   #17
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Can't go wrong with either choice !!!

Quote:
Scope mounting options are more limited because of the 11mm dovetail.
This is true but not a big issue, in my book. You probably won't find a set, in your stash but are readily available. I have also seen some folks use a standard American rings. I chose not to. .....

Quote:
Right now, I am leaning toward the Savage FV-SR and swapping the stock.
You may know that many Savage models, are available in other stock options. This one may not and one strong choice, is Boyds. This is exactly what I did, on a recent purchase. They had the stock I wanted but not in the color I liked. Went to Boyd's and they really helped me out. ...

Be Safe !!!
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Old January 1, 2014, 03:27 PM   #18
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Thanks for the tip on Boyd's I'll check them out.
And yeah, IIRC the first FV-SR I saw had the target stock on it. I was kinda surprised when I saw some with the normal stock.

Color is not high on my priority list as the rifle will most likely get a DuraCoat treatment soon after purchase.
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Old January 1, 2014, 03:31 PM   #19
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Fan of the CZ rimfires. I own one, a 452 Varmint.
A great shooter, but it did require trigger work.
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Old January 2, 2014, 07:30 AM   #20
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Savage gets my vote

They may not be real pretty, but they shoot sweet. I think the 2 guns in question look pretty good though.
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Old January 3, 2014, 06:33 AM   #21
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The CZ magazines and mag releases are fine, don't know why you would be worried about them. The fit and finish on the CZs are excellent, I know of some cases where people have problems with feeding and extraction with the Savages, but with CZs that seems to be very uncommon.

Accuracy wise the CZs have a very good reputation, I would say better than Savages. I'm not a huge fan of the accu trigger, and my CZ one is pretty darn good, and they are easily made excellent with a kit.

If the prices were similar I'd go for a CZ with no looking back. Even if it was a bit more expensive, it'd still be my pick.
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Old January 3, 2014, 06:59 AM   #22
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I have a CZ 452 Trainer and I agree with the statement about the 11mm dovetail. To me, it is not well thought out.

What I did was get an 11mm picatinny adapter and put that on. It does move the scope up a little but now I can switch scopes from any other rifle that has the same mounting system and boresight it with a laser to be on paper with the first shot. A lot of folks at my range really like Savage and I won't knock them because I don't shoot them. My 452 is a pretty good shooter and I did have a trigger job done on the rifle and that has helped a lot.

I bought a Ruger 7722 a few weeks ago and have not been real happy with the accuracy. I had a trigger job done on it and it is not much better.

I just had the rifle pillar bedded and glassed in and floated the barrel. I am heading out to the range this morning to see if it helped.
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Old January 3, 2014, 11:19 AM   #23
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I purchased the factory CZ rings and was done with it.
They're very robust rings.

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Old January 3, 2014, 06:05 PM   #24
Jo6pak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "trg42wraglefragle
The CZ magazines and mag releases are fine, don't know why you would be worried about them.
It's not so much that I am worried about them. I am just curious on the construction of the magazine and position/manipulation of the release. The Savage magazine and release leave a bit to be desired IMO. As I have never handled or shot a CZ, I'm just looking for thoughts/opinions.

Still leaning towards the Savage FV-SR, but I'd like to to find a shop that carries CZ rimfires. The safety and bolt handle position seem to be a bit better placed than the Savage.
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Old January 3, 2014, 06:14 PM   #25
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my experience is CZ makes a superior rimfire. Savage makes a budget rimfire.
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