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Old December 30, 2013, 06:36 PM   #1
baddarryl
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Acceptable Accuracy for White Tail?

Hi all. I am teaching my kids to shoot and have put them through the Hunters Safety course here in NC. I have told them that once they get accurate enough they can hunt next year. What would you guys consider accurate enough at 100 yards for young hunter? I don't have a .243 for them yet, but plan to test them with that.

Right now they can both reliably hit charcoal from a rest at 40 yards with both scoped and aperture sight .22's.
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Old December 30, 2013, 06:52 PM   #2
Ruger480
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Aim small, miss small. If it were my son, I would only let him shoot at a distance which he could consistantly hit a 6 inch target. 5 shots at "X" yards.

BTW...have fun!
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Old December 30, 2013, 06:52 PM   #3
Fisher
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Darryl, I know people want a rifle that shoots sub MOA at 100 yards. The reality is that it just isn't needed all the time. When hunting deer, if they can keep it within a 6" circle they should be fine. The kill zone of a deer is a lot bigger then that.

Jim
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Old December 30, 2013, 07:02 PM   #4
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That's what I was thinking. 5 shots, 6in at a 100 yards. Most shots here would max at that anyway.
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Old December 30, 2013, 08:30 PM   #5
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If they can consistently hit a softball at a 100 then it's game on.
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Old December 30, 2013, 09:57 PM   #6
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6" @ 100 yards is acceptable ONLY IF you are shooting at game @ 100 yards or less. If the kids decide to take a shot way past 100 yards, I would urge you to get them back to the range (with their hunting gun) and practice some more.

6" @ 100 yards = 12" @ 200 yards = 18" @ 300 yards... and so on. The "ethical shot" comes into play here.

So hopefully you teach them to know their limitations and hunt ethically.

When my 7yo son could zing a nickel @ 50 yards with a 4x scope with his Ruger 10/22. That earned him the right to go bunny hunting. He did just fine.

Now he's 9yo and can zing a quarter @ 100 yards with an AR15. He is REALLY counting the days until he turns 14yo so he can legally hunt Javalina in AZ. I may take him to Texas and hunt wild pig. They only require him to be 10 years old.

Good luck and good times!
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Old December 30, 2013, 10:03 PM   #7
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At any range, if you can hit a typical 9" paper plate you are in the kill zone on a whitetail standing broadside. But you have to know where that kill zone is located. If the angle isn't perfectly broadside that kill zone could be much smaller. If the animal is partially obscured, which happens more often than not, only a portion of the kill zone may be exposed.

Quote:
Right now they can both reliably hit charcoal from a rest at 40 yards with both scoped and aperture sight .22's.
I'd say they are already better than most hunters then.

Just teach them where the kill zone is and be careful taking shots at bad angles and I think they are going to be fine.
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Old December 31, 2013, 01:18 AM   #8
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Consitration

When I was 8 years old, I practiced a lot with a .22 and a .410 pump. I was very consistent. When it came time to hunt deer, dad let me use a 20 gauge single shot. I was not afraid to use it and the recoil wasn't too bad using a slug. When I was hunting, seen my first deer not even 15 yards away, I got what you would call "buck fever" and I could not steady that gun for nothing. Heart racing at a 100 MPH, breathing heavily, butterflies in the stomach, I shot. I missed. It took me at least five to six deer seasons and missing all my deer at point blank range to finally come to terms with what was going on. Once I learned to concentrate, focus, I started to bag deer. Dad knew that. When I asked him why didn't he teach me about buck fever and how to deal with it, he told me I had to learn in my own way. He figured I would want to learn more and become a better hunter using some motivation from his success. Did it work? Yes. My dad is old school as well. I have been teaching my 10 year old about all these things that happen, reading guides and manual on basic hunting techniques and so forth. If they get that buck fever, all that training and practicing will seem like it had little effect. At least what I have found with me as a child. Concetration focus seemed to benefit me more than all the time on range. But that's just me. Good luck, be safe!!
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Old December 31, 2013, 03:10 AM   #9
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jmr40...
A 9" paper plate group could relate to anything from a heart/lung shot to a gut shot! Given just a small bit of wrong angle and you are trailing a deer that is mortally wounded and slowly dying. Gut shots can sometimes not leave a good blood trail and result in lost animals. I think the kids and the deer deserve to be treated better and all it takes is a little load research, instruction and practice to get them on the right track.
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Old December 31, 2013, 10:54 AM   #10
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On there best days they should be able to hit a 3 inch target and they should be able to hit a 6 inch pie plate at 100 yards consistently to go hunting.
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Old December 31, 2013, 11:09 AM   #11
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Well, you can shoot 1/2 inch groups off the bench and it does not necessarily mean that you are good in the field. I bet there aren't a handful of hunters on here who can hit a 6 inch target at 100 yards with no rest with any consistency. Just make sure they are capable with the shots they will encounter.
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Old December 31, 2013, 11:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeroJunk:

Well, you can shoot 1/2 inch groups off the bench and it does not necessarily mean that you are good in the field. I bet there aren't a handful of hunters on here who can hit a 6 inch target at 100 yards with no rest with any consistency. Just make sure they are capable with the shots they will encounter.
I gotta agree. Altho I sure most of those same hunters will argue the fact, since 1'' MOA offhand is nuttin' on the internet. As important as shooting well off the bench or offhand at the range is familiarity and being comfortable with the firearm. This is why so many of those guys that shoot that 1'' MOA @ 100 at the local range miss their deer @ 70 yards on opening morning. Instead of shooting in their shirtsleeves like they did 2 weeks earlier at the range, they are bundled up in 4 layers plus a hunting coat. Add to that the adrenaline of seeing that first buck of the day. When they miss, it's the ammo or the scope got knocked off...or they hit a branch. What I see that most new/young hunters are lacking is enough rounds downrange with the firearm they are using. Because of the cost of ammo, they only get to shoot the minimal amount of rounds to get that new and unfamiliar firearm on paper. Two weeks later on opening day, the gun does not feel like an old friend, but an awkward stick in their arms. I see this not only in new/young hunters, but those that only use firearms for two days a year on opening weekend. Kids that shoot a lot, even if it's just with a BB gun or .22 will always shoot better on live game than those who shoot paper rarely. Kids who play first-person video games generally shoot live game better because they are used to obtaining a correct sight picture quicker and putting the sights where they belong, instead of on the middle of the target. They learn to determine where the kill zone is. This is another reason many young/new hunters wound game. They practice only on shooting to the center of the target. This many times carries over to the inexperienced hunter...they tend to aim for the center, not only because this is what they have practiced, but because it seems to be harder to miss. Get you kids to shoot a lot.......not just what they will use for hunting deer. Have them practice on realistic targets, not just round/square bulls-eye.
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Old December 31, 2013, 12:35 PM   #13
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Paper plate rule...

My Father, used the paper plate rule. His version, anyway. He was an NRA certified instructor, gave Hunter Safety classes for decades, was an active conservationist before the wacko green types gave it a bad name, experienced hunter, and generally gave pretty good advice. I use the same rule.

Our paper plate rule works for deer, with any firearm, at any range. Hitting the plate anywhere isn't good enough, you have to be able to hit near the middle of the plate, consistently.

If you can get a palm size group near the middle of the plate, it passes. Better is, of course, better.

If you can do that at 75yds, for example, but only hit the plate somewhere at 150, then 75yds is your range limit for humane kills, and longer shots are not taken until your personal skill is up to the task.

As others have pointed out, just being able to hit the plate somewhere isn't good enough to ensure a clean kill, because of all the other things involved in a hunting shot. If you can't be accurate enough on the range, odds are very high you won't be accurate enough in the field. And that is a disservice to us all, and dishonor to the deer...
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Old December 31, 2013, 01:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Now he's 9yo and can zing a quarter @ 100 yards with an AR15. He is REALLY counting the days until he turns 14yo so he can legally hunt Javalina in AZ. I may take him to Texas and hunt wild pig. They only require him to be 10 years old.
Don't make him wait until he's 14!!! Get him in hunters safety! He can hunt big game in AZ at 10 after he passes hunters safety course.
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Old December 31, 2013, 01:20 PM   #15
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I go to public ranges and see the father/son paper plate scene quite often. Not a good thing. I have to agree, the range is not like out in the woods. Best if you can start them out hunting where the shots are 15-75 yards. Take them ground hog or squirrel hunting first. I have taken a woman and some kids out their first time. I sat right there with each of them all day. More guys should do that instead of dumping the kid off along the trail.
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Old December 31, 2013, 01:53 PM   #16
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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If the kids are hitting a charcoal briquette at 40 yards with both a Scope & a peep.__ {as the 22 is near its max range at that distance for the everyday shooter.}__ I think your kids are doing just fine Sir.

As far as a weapon most appropriate for a young shootist. No doubt I think a H&R Superlight Handi-Rifle or H&Rs Youth model Handi-Rifle would be a great first rifle.

With their use. It teach's patients and only having one shot to hit that bullseye or take that animal with. And that's a good way to start off hunting I think. Latter when both are bigger. They then can consider something quite different for their use when that time comes. Good luck with your choice for their first rifle.
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Old December 31, 2013, 01:55 PM   #17
DennisCA
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My 2 cents

Paper targets are good but if you want to make it more realistic, get some (paper) deer targets. Google Search:
(Hopefully the range you use allows them)
https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#h...r+deer+targets

IMHO - they're more realistic than just a paper target or a pie plate.

Archers use them, why shouldn't gun-hunters?
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Old December 31, 2013, 02:19 PM   #18
.284
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What ZeroJunk said is very valid.

Quote:
Well, you can shoot 1/2 inch groups off the bench and it does not necessarily mean that you are good in the field. I bet there aren't a handful of hunters on here who can hit a 6 inch target at 100 yards with no rest with any consistency. Just make sure they are capable with the shots they will encounter.

As a reloader, I test rifle and pistol loads from the bench. This gives me confidence that the gun will do it's job if I do mine. However, field shooting and bench shooting are not even close to the same. I like to use shooting sticks or steady myself with a tree. I don't believe this will acheive the tight groups I get when using a led sled but, I know it's better than off hand shooting........for me anyway.
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Old December 31, 2013, 02:34 PM   #19
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Regardless of what accuracy standard you decide on, bear in mind that it will be more easily met if kiddo learns to shoot from positions other than offhand and to utilize improvised rests where available. I have watched a hunting buddy miss a nice buck when he shot offhand without a sling when there was ample time to sling up and take a solid sitting position where he stood, or move a few steps to a boulder for a rested shot. (Buck fever!)

It's been years, but friends and I had great fun and improved our skills by cutting small diameter logs into roughly one diameter lengths, whitening them with a flour mixture, and scattering them in a small valley. Hiking around, taking shots at random ranges and relative elevations makes for great practice, and the biodegradable targets mean any we failed to find on cleaning up are not a problem.
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Old December 31, 2013, 02:37 PM   #20
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I won't take an offhand shot 90% of the time less it's within 100yds but i've been trying to get out of my bipod comfort zone, which i should've been doing for a long time. If i can make it to the GAP grind this year it should help a lot. The last deer i shot was close but was an unstable position, made one of the best shots i've ever put on a deer.

If they're hitting charcoal at 40yds open sites work them up to a .223 or .243 slowly they'll be outshooting most they go against and certainly more than enough for deer.
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Old December 31, 2013, 03:58 PM   #21
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I agree with Ruger, a 6" target hit reliably is more then enough to take a whitetail from similiar distances. My father swears if you can hit a pie plate at 100 yds you'll get him. I don't agree with that much wiggle room, but he has dropped many more deer then me where they stood.

I would also encourage you to have them practice with the rifle they will be taking into the field. 22's are nice to learn good technique but when somethings life hangs in the balance they should be confident with the rifle they are using.
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Old December 31, 2013, 04:14 PM   #22
baddarryl
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Quote:
I would also encourage you to have them practice with the rifle they will be taking into the field. 22's are nice to learn good technique but when somethings life hangs in the balance they should be confident with the rifle they are using.
Yes I am looking for a youth 243 as we speak for them. Sure would like to find one used, but don't see many. I have an AR in 223 that i am going to let them use to stretch out the distance until I can lay my hands on a 243. Heck, I really need 2 of them!
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Old December 31, 2013, 04:58 PM   #23
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2 rifles?

nonsense, just tell them the better shot gets to use the rifle when they hunt and let the games begin
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Old December 31, 2013, 05:54 PM   #24
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Start them with a single shot .That engraves in their brain the idea "I only have one shot I have to make it count !" Rather than "If I miss I'll take him with the second or third round "
Teach the anatomy of the animal so he can take a good hit from any angle.
Don't let him try to shoot THROUGH the brush but find an opening. [any bullet can be deflected !']
I taught myself by putting a 6 oz frozen orange juice can in the field at 50 yds. If you hit it it moves , presenting a different view each shot.
Let him have some fun type shooting after the serious time.
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Old January 1, 2014, 03:22 PM   #25
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My personal limitations on this is not to shoot deer at distances that I cannot keep 5 shots inside of 2 inches with a particular firearm
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