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Old December 27, 2013, 04:15 PM   #1
Wreck-n-Crew
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45 Super or 460 Rowland?

I have already had on my "to buy list" a 1911 though a little further down from a 226. That is until the 45 Super and 460 Rowland crept in and intrigued me.

Question is which one? Then I realized I could have them both in one gun if I get a decent 1911 with a strong barrel that will shoot the 45 super. One 460 Rowland conversion kit would be all that's needed. From what I have seen the 460 Rowland spring might be a little stiff for the 45 Super, but should work.

Here comes the fun part: Since I am a re-loader I would like to roll my own but I need to hear from someone with more experience than me with these rounds.

Main questions:
Powder recommendations.
Case life expectancy and nuances (especially in the Rowland).
Test results?
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Old December 27, 2013, 05:01 PM   #2
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what would (did) Triton do?

45 Super = Alliant Power Pistol


Superb loads can also be worked up with AA7, N350, and another I can't recall
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Old December 27, 2013, 08:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Alliant Power Pistol
Thanks. That's another conundrum, Data on Aliant powders doesn't exist for either. ALso Winchester only has one powder choice for the 460.

At least I have some time to figure this out. In the end I may be loading either one or the other rather than both. Just have to see if I end up favoring one over the other.
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Old December 27, 2013, 10:32 PM   #4
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Some things to consider on the Roland.The case is longer,but the magazine length is the same,the cartridge LOA is the same.

That can make for bullet seating depth issues with bullets designed for 45 ACP

Example,some SWC bullets will be too long when the wadcutter portion is seated at the case mouth.

If you go with a ramped barrel,large meplat 265 gr or so 45 Colt revolver bullets will likely catch the ramp.Individual magazine tuning may be needed.

On stiff springs...slide coming back and smacking the frame bridge is only half the story.

Now the 24 pound spring launches the slide forward.The barrel feet and the slide stop,along with the slide stop holes in the frame take that hit.

No free lunch

Last edited by HiBC; December 27, 2013 at 10:37 PM.
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Old December 27, 2013, 10:39 PM   #5
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You should be aware that S&W does NOT warranty police trade-in guns! I just went through the exercise of sending mine in with a cracked frame after I gave them the serial # over the phone. They sent me a shipping label for it via e-mail. However, I got a call in a few days advising me of the fact they are not covered. New frames are not available, so I have a paperweight!
Good to know. From what I have gathered the 185 GR are too light for the Rowland. Kind of narrows down my choices a little.
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Old December 29, 2013, 08:38 AM   #6
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I have some Triton and other pressure-tested data somewhere; e-mail me direct so I remember to find it for you.
Make it clear in the subject line what you're doing


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Old December 29, 2013, 09:53 PM   #7
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CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
In May 2000 I worked up past 460 Rowland loads with mixed used 45acp brass in a 20 ounce Patriot pistol.
I learned a few things from that:
1) If I have the case support and the chamber wall thickness, i can to all the way to the brass failing from the primer falling out.
2) I don't want to do that in a lightweight 45acp. The recoil is horrific.
3) I built a triple recoil spring from Wolff gunsmith pak #14, that measures 42 pounds with the slide pulled back.
That slide is so fast I need to double up on magazine springs to be fast enough to push up the next cartridge for the slide has returned to the forward position.
It takes a very strong grip to chamber a round. I have not found anyone else that can do it.
Loading the magazine is a thumb destroyer.
4) Still the spring and mass are only tuned up for ~ 45acp +P to have the brass land 5 feet away. The rest of the 460 Rowland slide energy relative to the frame goes into slamming the frame. But that sure beats the painful slam that comes with 12 pound spring and 460 Rowland loads. That shakes parts off the pistol and gave me a flinch.

What does it all mean?

So unless you want some noisy recoil compensator, or want to run 40kpsi with .061" chamber walls in a S&W 25-2, then the answer to 45 Super or 460 Rowland results in another question, "How much does your slide weigh?"


1, 2, 3, and 4 are published loads, the rest are things I worked up or worked down:

0) 45 acp....................... 185 gr 07.6 gr AA#5 jams w/stock Patriot spring
1) 45 acp........................185 gr 10.2 gr AA#5 1100 fps 18,000psi
2) 45 acp +P...................185 gr 10.8 gr AA#5 1200 fps 21,700 psi
3) 45 Super.....................185 gr 12.4 gr AA#5 1312 fps 28,000 cup
4) 460 Rowland............... 185 gr 14.5 gr AA#5 1500 fps 38,800 cup
5) Easy extraction ............185 gr 15.0 gr AA#5 *rifle
6) Case starts to stretch....185 gr 15.2 gr AA#5 *rifle
7) difficult extraction ........185 gr 16.0 gr AA#5 *rifle
8) primer falls out ............185 gr 16.5 gr AA#5 *rifle
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Old December 29, 2013, 11:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
I have some Triton and other pressure-tested data somewhere; e-mail me direct so I remember to find it for you.
Make it clear in the subject line what you're doing
Thanks and I will.

Thanks for the info Clark.
Quote:
So unless you want some noisy recoil compensator,
Actually the 460 kit has a compensated barrel. I'll only be shooting FMJ and JHP to stay on the safe side.Also heavier Gr than 185. Above 200 for the Super and 230 for the Rowland is the plan.
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