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Old December 26, 2013, 01:05 AM   #26
Lucas McCain
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In Minnesota the law is any 22 cal. centerfire cartridge or larger.
Common sense tells, me any rifle not being able to deliver a bullet with 1000 ft. lbs. of energy at a distance of 100 yards is not adequate.
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Old December 26, 2013, 02:35 AM   #27
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Deer Hunting in Indiana

I've had to give up hunting but my youngest Nephew has taken over my 1894 Marlin .357 Magnum. It's the smallest calibre currently allowed here in Indiana. It got the job done this season with two nice harvests.
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Old December 26, 2013, 07:59 AM   #28
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I have mixed feelings about minimum calibers. On one hand, its a shame that all hunters are not responsible enough to choose a suitable arm for humane hunting, but on the other hand, there are always a number of people who believe that if their state government law has not specified otherwise, it must me a good deer round.

I find a number of dead deer in the woods during late (post-gun) muzzleloader season, and I think Ohio's minimums are pretty sufficient. I can't imagine what its like in places where a wider array of marginal or insufficient rounds are used.
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Old December 26, 2013, 08:38 AM   #29
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Tim, we regularly debate what the minimum deer round should be. Just look at any "is .223 adequate for deer" threads and you will see.

As for hunters who do not practice enough, we are going to have them no matter what the minimum caliber is. One of our members has an interesting catch phrase along the lines of "I'd rather be shot with a .50BMG in the foot than a .22 Short to the base of the skull."

In other words, it doesn't matter what you shoot, shot placement will always be key. I have also found for the most part on that topic, you are preaching to the choir here.
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Old December 26, 2013, 09:41 AM   #30
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Missouri: Allowed:, for firearms season, Centerfire pistols, revolvers or rifles using expanding type bullets. Shotguns (including .410 with slugs only), air powered guns of .40 cal or larger, Muzzleloading or cap and ball firearm of .40 cal or larger. Archery methods do not have a minimum draw weight.

Prohibited for firearms season. Selfloading with more than 11 round capacity (mag and chamber combined), ammunition propelling more than one projectile at a single discharge (i.e. buckshot), full hard metal case projectiles, fully automatic firearms, any device that casts a beam of light on the game, and electronic calls.
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Old December 26, 2013, 10:04 AM   #31
ChasingWhitetail91
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I'm jealous shortwave. In ct a .410 slug isn't allowed for deer for reasons unknown to me. We are stuck with .20ga and up. As far as rifles I believe .243 is the smallest allowed caliber.
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Old December 26, 2013, 12:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
I'm jealous shortwave. In ct a .410 slug isn't allowed for deer for reasons unknown to me
Well...IMHO if I had my choice between using any rifle from .243 on up or any shotgun, whatever the cal., I'd opt for the rifle hands down over the shotgun. Especially in the consistent accuracy and shot placement department when comparing shotguns to rifles.

Let me say this about the .410 and hunting deer.... but first, please understand my limited experience with using a .410 for deer hunting was done years ago with Foster style slugs. There may well be much better designed .410 slugs on the market today.

As long as the hunter shoots at a live animal knowing the limits of the .410 slug, they will kill deer. But IMO, in a shotgun only environment the 20,16 or 12ga. is better if for nothing else, a bigger wound channel.

To sum things up, again, IMO, same as I can't use a .22 for deer hunting, your not missing much cause you can't use the .410 for deer hunting.
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Old December 26, 2013, 05:51 PM   #33
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I assume this is about the response I put in a post. Keep in mind that some laws change yearly ( my state has had numerous new laws this year regarding hunting). Also when you have a nuisance permit te law can be different, especially when there are homes nearby and the hunting is being done at night.
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Old December 26, 2013, 07:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
I assume this is about the response I put in a post...
Dc777,

If you are talking about my above post, sorry my friend, I'm afraid you assumed wrong.

I was responding to ChasingWhitetail91 post just before mine...

Quote:
I'm jealous shortwave. In ct a .410 slug isn't allowed for deer for reasons unknown to me....
Dc777,



Just went back through the thread and don't see where you posted anywhere.

What post are you talking about???

Last edited by shortwave; December 26, 2013 at 08:02 PM.
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Old December 26, 2013, 08:06 PM   #35
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@ JDOxO

Nope the .38 special is not legal in Indian. While it does meet the minimum rifle projectile diameter, It doesn't meet the minimum case length requirement for a rifle. The 30-06 is not legal, because not only is it not large enough in diameter...it is also over the MAXIMUM case length requirement for a rifle.

Just like an 18" barreled 30-30 lever action isn't okay to hunt with here, but a 22" barreled bolt action .35 Rem is

But you want to hear something REALLY stupid? Drop a 12" .300 win. mag barrel into a single shot pistol platform of some kind, and that just fine and dandy for deer. OR...How about all the caliber restrictions for deer due to "public Safety", but it's just fine and legal for any joe blow to grab their .338 lapua, go squirrel hunting...and be rocketing lead @ 3000 fps into the sky...Indiana...yeash


Sorry.....rant off LOL
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Old December 26, 2013, 08:28 PM   #36
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Actually shortwave I was talking to the original poster of the thread. Pay attention
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Old December 26, 2013, 08:54 PM   #37
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Quote:
Actually shortwave I was talking to the original poster of the thread. Pay attention
It would help when you post 33 posts into a discussion that your post not be as vague as it was so others here will know who/what you're talking about.

Maybe even addressing the OP in your post may help the rest of us pay attention and understand that you are posting something that was not relevant to what was currently being discussed in the thread.
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Old December 26, 2013, 08:59 PM   #38
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DC777, yep, your post put the bee in my bonnet to start this thread. Purely an educational move, as I discovered that perhaps some states have lower limits than I thought, and as I have hunted a few states, probably a lot of other folks would find it interesting to learn what minimums exist around the nation.

Yep, all your fault, look what you started!
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Old December 26, 2013, 09:41 PM   #39
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There are two questions involved, minimum caliber for clean kill and maximum distance of stray projectiles.

Indiana iirc recently allowed pistol caliber rifles/carbines for deer hunting. That is in keeping with previous regulations intended to limit the distance stray projectiles. It also explains why the is a .357 minimum for bullets.

I was raised for the first few years of my life in Northeast Ohio. Even in rural areas the population is relatively dense. Farms can be as small as five acres with neighbors being much closer than pistol shot distance.

Washington state has a .24 caliber limit as has been stated above. While Texas is any centerfire.
If we compare the game that the average hunter will meet in the two states the difference in regulations make a bit more sense.

While it is true that Washington state black tail deer tend to be small enough that a .22 caliber minimum might make sense, they are limited to half the state. The dry side deer tend to be a bit larger.
So it is easier and less expensive to have a minimum that covers the whole state rather than having two or more.
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Old December 26, 2013, 10:04 PM   #40
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Thank You Berdan

Quote:
But you want to hear something REALLY stupid? Drop a 12" .300 win. mag barrel into a single shot pistol platform of some kind, and that just fine and dandy for deer
The Missouri "Alternative Methods Season" aka Muzzleloader season in any other state now allows for "pistols". You cited what irks me about that.

IMO the Encore type single shot "pistols" are actually short barreled rifles without a stock. So, why do they have a place as an alternative method?
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Old December 27, 2013, 01:21 AM   #41
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Alabama

Centerfire, expanding projectile. The new .17 centerfire will be contoversial.
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Old December 27, 2013, 09:45 AM   #42
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My state, Utah, allows any centerfire rifle cartridge using an expanding bullet.

You could, legally, use a .25 ACP to hunt moose or bear, as long as you use an expanding bullet and fire it from a rifle.............not necessarily a good idea, but it would be legal.


For pistols, it's .24 minimum, with expanding bullets. Also requires 500 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle for antelope and deer, 500 ft lbs of energy at 100 yards for elk, moose, or bear.
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Old December 27, 2013, 06:35 PM   #43
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Cowboy the decision to allow center-fire pistols and center-fire revolvers as an option to the Alternative Methods seasons simply amazed me. You can hunt with a spear, atlatl or a TC Contender/scope, yeah thats almost the same.
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Old December 28, 2013, 12:18 AM   #44
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Colorado hunting regs--firearms

1. CENTERFIRE RIFLES
a. Must be minimum of .24 caliber (6 mm).
b. Must have a minimum 16-inch barrel and be at least 26 inches long.
c. If semiautomatic, a maximum of six rounds are allowed in the magazine
and chamber combined.
d. Must use expanding bullets that weigh minimum 70 grains for deer,
pronghorn and bear, 85 grains for elk and moose, and have an impact
energy (at 100 yards) of 1,000-ft. pounds as rated by manufacturer.


Handguns
a. Barrel must be minimum 4 inches long.
b. Must use a minimum .24-caliber (6 mm) diameter expanding bullet.
c. Shoulder stocks or attachments prohibited.
d. Must use a cartridge or load that produces minimum energy of 550-ft.
pounds at 50 yards as rated by manufacturer.
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Old December 28, 2013, 03:08 AM   #45
FrankenMauser
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I hunt Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming. Essentially.... anything but a rimfire is legal for rifles. There are some other minor restrictions, but not much.

For handguns, the rules can be a little more complicated. Generally, .327 Federal and up is good for deer. .41 Mag and up is good for Elk/Moose/etc.
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Old December 28, 2013, 04:16 AM   #46
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Just to point out, state hunting regulations are NOT about what is the minimum needed to cleanly and humanely take game. They are about what is felt to be in the best interests of safety and sport.

And, they do change, some rarely, some fairly often.

40 years ago, I was hunting in northern NY state. The rules there, (and then) were for deer; rifle .24cal centerfire or larger. Shotgun, 20ga or larger, slug only. Handgun:centerfire (IIRC, it might have been centerfire, .35cal or larger, I don't recall, not being a handgun hunter at that time) That was for the northern zone. Southern Zone (over half the state) was shotgun only, slug only.

For black bear, the same rules, except buckshot was allowed. Slugs only for deer, slugs or buckshot for bear. Makes sense? hmmm...

Then I moved, and hunted in Washington. Rifle was centerfire, 24 caliber or larger, 85gr bullet or heavier, and there was also a ft/lb minimum at 100yds, but I don't recall exactly what it was. I do remember that the 117gr .25-35 Winchester load just barely made the energy minimum. I no longer remember the shotgun requirements at that time...

The handgun requirements I recall pretty clearly, there was a 6" barrel min. The allowable cartridges were listed by name, being .41Mag, .44Mag, .44 Automatic Mag, & .45 Win Mag. At the time, I had a nice Ruger old model Blackhawk in .41 Mag, that wasn't legal for deer hunting, because of the 4 5/8" barrel, and I ended up trading it for a .30-30....something I still regret...

The regs at the time also clearly stated that the 9mm and .45ACP were NOT legal for deer.

A few years later, the handgun regs changed, dropping the barrel length to 4", and replacing the listed cartridges with an energy/distance requirement, something like 500ft/lbs for deer and 750 for elk. After they did that I REALLY regretted getting rid of that sweet .41.

Quote:
Common sense tells, me any rifle not being able to deliver a bullet with 1000 ft. lbs. of energy at a distance of 100 yards is not adequate.
It may be common sense to you, and it may be the legal requirement in some places, and it is certainly enough to get the job done, but many places have a lower minimum legal requirement, certainly less than 1000/100 is able to do the job cleanly. Handguns delivering less than that are certainly "adequate", and legal in many places.

I'll say again, the regulations about minimum calibers for hunting are about SPORT hunting, not about what is enough gun to do the job. The hunting regs take into account both the expert hunters like all of us here on TFL as well as those who are barely safe with a gun off the pavement. Public safety (as a perception), and what is best for the game population are part of the equation as well. Also, it seems, in recent years, in some places that encouraging, or discouraging hunting is also being taken into account when new regs are being created.

I stopped hunting in one state when the regs about where, when, and what you could hunt got so complex (in the name of game management, of course) that one needed high quality maps and good training in land navigation (pre GPS tech) just to stay within the regs. One could, literally be perfectly legal in one Game Management Unit, cross the next hill, and be a criminal. This, to me was a discouragement, and I don't think I was the only one. Also, I always had a feeling that it was intentionally done just for that result, but maybe that's just me.....
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Old December 28, 2013, 08:49 AM   #47
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connecticut is .243. Although i dont understand, you cant use a .410 slug, 20 and up. its no smaller than a .357 for handgun.
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Old December 28, 2013, 09:01 AM   #48
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Any center fire in Kentucky.
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Old December 28, 2013, 09:28 AM   #49
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Quote:
I stopped hunting in one state when the regs about where, when, and what you could hunt got so complex (in the name of game management, of course) that one needed high quality maps and good training in land navigation (pre GPS tech) just to stay within the regs. One could, literally be perfectly legal in one Game Management Unit, cross the next hill, and be a criminal. This, to me was a discouragement, and I don't think I was the only one. Also, I always had a feeling that it was intentionally done just for that result, but maybe that's just me
I stopped fishing a state for the same reason. From year to year the locale of legal fishing on rivers/streams changes so much it became more of a hassle to keep up with the regs then the trip was worth. I often felt it was a money game as the DNR fella's had a rep. for not cutting anyone a break. Especially if you were from out of state.

I truly wish Ohio would drop their minimum legal length of pistols from 5" to 4" to cover the 4.75" pistols as well. I have a few pistols in the popular 4"-5" lengths that I'd like to hunt with that I'm no less accurate with then my guns in the 5-6" range. But as always, I could be more accurate with all of them.

Last edited by shortwave; December 28, 2013 at 09:52 AM.
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Old December 28, 2013, 12:24 PM   #50
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Co. requires a .24 caliber. And you cannot hunt varmints during a regular big game season with anything larger than a .22 center fire if you do not have a current unfilled tag for that big game season. Guess they figured out the party hunters. Once the regular big game season is over the larger calibers are legal for varmints & fur bearers.
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