The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 25, 2013, 01:30 PM   #1
Cirdan
Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2013
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 93
AR 15 Malfunction - Trapped Round

Weird thing happened to me on the range. I was having a problem feeding with a magazine, and one of the rounds actually got trapped above the bolt carrier group. I couldn't disassemble with the round trapped there (rear takedown pin would come out, but the upper/lower wouldn't separate). Finally managed to work the round loose. Fired off a couple of quick rounds for a function test, and don't seem to have damaged anything. Near as I can figure, two rounds wound up in the action, one seated in the chamber and the other got trapped.

This happen to anyone else?
Cirdan is offline  
Old December 25, 2013, 01:40 PM   #2
Palmetto-Pride
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,897
Hasn't happened to me but the reason you couldn't separate the upper was because the rear of the bolt carrier was protruding into the buffer tube.
__________________
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

-Margaret Thatcher-
Palmetto-Pride is offline  
Old December 25, 2013, 01:48 PM   #3
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 529
Google: AR15 double feed
__________________
That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

--- George Orwell
Erno86 is offline  
Old December 25, 2013, 03:58 PM   #4
Steve in PA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 1999
Location: Northeastern PA
Posts: 603
It's actually called a charging handle impingement or triple feed.

http://www.mdtstraining.com/Carbine%...MDTS_Part2.pdf
__________________
Steve
Steve in PA is offline  
Old December 26, 2013, 12:19 AM   #5
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,473
Yes I've had that happen, twice now in my career, both times on ranges instead of in a more engaging circumstances.

Here is the procedure to fix that "bolt over ride" issue.

If you have a collapsible buttstock, collapse it all the way.

Remove the magazine.

Using the web of you hand push down on the charging handle at the same time as you firmly rap the butt of the rifle against the ground. Yes you are hammering on your rifle with live ammunition mucking about in it, so firmly grip the handguards with your other hand and keep the muzzle pointing up and down range.

After a few thumps the bolt carrier group will go to the rear. KEEP YOUR HAND ON THE CHARGING HANDLE KEEPING THE BOLT TO THE REAR.

Use your other hand to engage the bolt hold open latch, then slowly let off the charging handle with your other hand until the bolt is held open by the latch.

Now firmly shove the charging handle forward, it will knock the jammed round out of position, make sure it falls clear of the rifle.

At this point your charging handle is forward, your bolt is to the rear, and you are ready to insert a magazine and continue shooting.

Jimro
__________________
"Gorsh" said Goofy as secondary explosions racked the beaten zone, "Did I do that?"

http://randomthoughtsandguns.blogspot.com/
Jimro is offline  
Old December 27, 2013, 04:20 PM   #6
Cirdan
Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2013
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 93
Thanks everyone. Nice to know I didn't create a new malfunction.
Cirdan is offline  
Old December 27, 2013, 07:54 PM   #7
PVL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2013
Posts: 169
No, it was Eugene Stoner who invented that particular malfunction.
PVL is offline  
Old December 27, 2013, 08:09 PM   #8
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 16,838
Inspect the involved magazine. Check to see if the lips are straight and unbent. Also check to see if they are tapered the same degree. To make it easy, compare them to an unused Colt or GI magazine.

If your magazine is faulty, set it aside and never use it for emergencies/self defense. It's only good for training (malfunction drills)
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old December 28, 2013, 06:11 PM   #9
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,319
As far as the clearing drill for that type of malfunction... I have heard of a different way that is supposed to be better. Quicker and less likely to damage the rifle at least. Can't for the life of me remember what or how to do it though.

Anyone else know of this?
marine6680 is offline  
Old December 29, 2013, 03:46 PM   #10
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,473
Marine6680,

There is no damage to the rifle unless you scuff up the butt by banging it too hard. To ensure no damage, bang it on a piece of cardboard or wood instead of dirt or concrete.

The first time it happened to me I didn't know "the procedure" and just pulled the round out with a Gerber multitool. The second time I was training with the AWG and they used it as a training opportunity on how to clear a jam that the Army says needs to go to an armorer to fix, and that is when I learned the procedure outlined above.

Jimro
__________________
"Gorsh" said Goofy as secondary explosions racked the beaten zone, "Did I do that?"

http://randomthoughtsandguns.blogspot.com/
Jimro is offline  
Old December 30, 2013, 09:22 PM   #11
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,319
I heard that it can break the charging handle... never had the problem, so can't say.
marine6680 is offline  
Old December 31, 2013, 12:47 AM   #12
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 5,473
Well, if you can remember an alternate procedure I would appreciate it if you shared it. Never too old to learn a new trick.

Jimro
__________________
"Gorsh" said Goofy as secondary explosions racked the beaten zone, "Did I do that?"

http://randomthoughtsandguns.blogspot.com/
Jimro is offline  
Old January 1, 2014, 12:41 AM   #13
Bart Noir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2000
Location: Puget Sound, USA
Posts: 1,618
Quote:
I heard that it can break the charging handle...
Which is one of the reasons that improved charging handles are on the market. The Bravo Company one that I have on both my carbines:

BCN charging handle

They really are built stronger than the original design.

Bart Noir
__________________
“There’s a rattle in my glove box,
A Federal twelve-gauge slug.” – Adam Carroll in song Porter Wagoner
Bart Noir is offline  
Old January 2, 2014, 10:14 AM   #14
Destructo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 1999
Location: Nogales, AZ USA
Posts: 3,806
Was it a live round (bolt override, double feed) or

a spent round (bolt override, failure to eject)?

The method I was taught is similar to Jimro's but with keeping the muzzle pointed downrange by putting the buttstock in your chest and pulling the charging handle to the rear with both hands. It will be tough to get the charging handle to the rear, and it won't go all the way back as normal, but I haven't had one that couldn't be cleared this way.

You can induce this malfunction yourself, if you want to practice clearing it.
__________________
God gave you a soul.
Your parents, a body.
Your country, a rifle.

Keep all of them clean.
Destructo6 is offline  
Old January 2, 2014, 01:03 PM   #15
Panfisher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 598
Here is a video I found, don't know if it is the same malfunction or not though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aDE0wR1yJA
Panfisher is offline  
Old January 2, 2014, 03:21 PM   #16
Steve in PA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 1999
Location: Northeastern PA
Posts: 603
You can also search youtube for Kyle Lamb Viking Tactic's "3 Little Kittens" drill.
__________________
Steve
Steve in PA is offline  
Old January 2, 2014, 09:25 PM   #17
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,319
Thats the right malfunction.

I found a video that demonstrates another way to clear the malfunction. Should be quicker than the methods in the first.

Video click here
marine6680 is offline  
Old January 3, 2014, 09:08 AM   #18
Panfisher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 598
Being a newbie to the AR World I have watched both those and the "3 little kittens" videos, never thought about how to clear a jam of that type before but should it happen to me I will at least have a few options to work with. Thank you to the OP for this thread it has been very educational for me.
Panfisher is offline  
Old January 5, 2014, 02:00 AM   #19
Cirdan
Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2013
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 93
It was a live round (double feed). I actually freed it by carefully pushing back on the bolt with a screwdriver and rattling the round loose. Did this holding the rifle pointing down so it would drop forward. Pointing the gun up just made the round fall further back in the gas key/charging handle channel.
Cirdan is offline  
Old January 5, 2014, 11:18 AM   #20
Marquezj16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2011
Posts: 2,088
Never had this problem but I'm glad I learned a few techniques just in case it ever happens.
Marquezj16 is offline  
Old January 5, 2014, 01:39 PM   #21
Strafer Gott
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,125
While we are on the malfs that can't happen thread, does anyone have a link to the Glock Brain-Buster clearance technique? I didn't believe that one until I saw it either!
Strafer Gott is offline  
Old January 6, 2014, 11:30 AM   #22
243winxb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2011
Posts: 974
Jam M16A1

Fired case Nothing would move. Crushed brass with a small screw driver. Pushed bolt back with wood dowel. I was told to slam butt on ground. No way.
243winxb is offline  
Old January 6, 2014, 04:59 PM   #23
Destructo6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 1999
Location: Nogales, AZ USA
Posts: 3,806
  • 1) Put the buttstock against your sternum.
    2) Pull back the charging handle with both hands. It will can be very difficult to move.
    3) When the charging handle stops moving (it will only come back 1-2"), activate the bolt stop.
    4) While holding the bolt stop with your left hand, karate chop the charging handle with your right hand.
    5) Stuck round should drop free.
Haven't seen one yet that this method wouldn't free.

Try it out yourself:
  • 1) Lock the bolt to the rear.
    2) Push the charging handle forward until it locks.
    3) Turn the rifle upside down, muzzle pointed up at about 45°.
    4) drop an empty case (or live, if you like) into the charging handle's concave bottom and allow it to slide back between the charging handle and bolt.
    5) insert loaded magazine into the gun.
    6) using the bolt stop/release, let the bolt slam home(-ish).
    7 You have just induced a bolt override [double feed (live round) or failure to eject (spent round)
__________________
God gave you a soul.
Your parents, a body.
Your country, a rifle.

Keep all of them clean.
Destructo6 is offline  
Old January 6, 2014, 05:56 PM   #24
pat701
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2005
Location: Beyond OZ
Posts: 234
Using steel cased ammo???
pat701 is offline  
Old January 12, 2014, 12:58 AM   #25
Cirdan
Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2013
Location: Tahoe
Posts: 93
No, brass.

I ran some Tul through it back when I couldn't get anything else. Didn't have any problems though.
Cirdan is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12059 seconds with 7 queries