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Old December 28, 2013, 09:40 PM   #1
RED_beard92
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Chopped Sxs

Im thinking about getting a double barrrel 12ga and turning it in to a pistol. I own plenty of shotguns as it is and just think that the pistol doubles are cool. Recoil is not really an issue with me, i just want to know what excatly i am getting myself into as far as work and fees go. I imagine a smith will have to do the work to the gun and i know you have to get it "restamped" but not sure what excatly that involves. Do i get it restamed before or after it has been cut down, and how do i get it restamped, do i have to send it away or does the gunsmith or what? Also can anyone ballpark a price, (not including the gun). Thanks
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Old December 28, 2013, 09:55 PM   #2
Coach Z
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Short Barreled Shotgun

You are creating an NFA weapon. Not terribly hard but you do need to do the paperwork and make sure that you're doing things in the right order i.e. get your tax stamp before lopping off the barrels.

You yourself are "making" this new weapon and will have to fill an ATF Form 1 and submit it to the ATF along with the $200 fee for the tax stamp. In about 6-9 months (a year possibly at the current rate) You should get your form back and can then modify the weapon legally. Alternatively you can give the gun to a qualified gunsmith who is licensed to make NFA weapons, he can do the conversion and then you can buy this "new" weapon from them on a Form 4.

The whole process can be a bit daunting at first but you'll find lots of members here who have jumped through the hoops and can give you some advice. But again please be fully aware of all the issues and potential legal snafus before doing anything. Just chopping off the barrels before you have a tax stamp can land you in a world of hurt!
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Last edited by Coach Z; December 28, 2013 at 09:56 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old December 29, 2013, 01:36 AM   #3
Deja vu
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Sounds like a fun project! I was going to do a simpilar project but decided to chop an 1887 lever action 12 clone instead.
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all 25 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple
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Old December 29, 2013, 03:54 AM   #4
Bill DeShivs
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I'm doing a 20 ga double now. I need to get off my butt and send in the paperwork. Yesterday I realized that all I have to do is finish the hand engraving, get my info engraved on it (it won't fit in my pantograph engraver,) and plate the receiver. Barrels are long enough to meet the OAL minimum, so when the stamp comes back, it's a simple matter to cut the barrels and fill the center ribs.
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Old December 29, 2013, 12:17 PM   #5
PetahW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red beard 92

I read what the forms said and am still scratching my head .
It said i need to put the length of the barrel on the permit put wouldnt that be up to the smith ?
As already posted, if you give it to a gunsmith, ILO doing it yourself, it can't be just any gunsmith - the qualified gunsmith must be licensed to make NFA weapons.

After he does the conversion, you can buy this "new" weapon from him on a Form 4.


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Old December 30, 2013, 06:16 AM   #6
RED_beard92
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Thanks for the help guys, I have done a bit more research on it and looked at the form at a bit more depth and it does not seem like it will be as difficult to preform as I thought. I do appreciate it, thanks a lot.
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Old December 30, 2013, 04:43 PM   #7
RED_beard92
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I have one question about all of this still, it hit me today that i just am a regular gun owner. (I dont have a class 3 permit, which if i remember correctly is what you need to have for a suppresser or full auto.) Do i need to get any special paperwork other than the restamping paper work to own a sawed off shotgun 100% leaglley. By the way i live in Pa and have a concelaed carry license.
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Old December 30, 2013, 05:24 PM   #8
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RED_beard92
I dont have a class 3 permit, which if i remember correctly is what you need to have for a suppresser or full auto.
The whole "you need a Class 3 permit to own a silencer, full-auto, etc." is a complete myth; there's no such thing as a "Class 3 permit". I have no idea where that myth started but it's just plain untrue: As long as you have a Form 1 or Form 4 with your name or your trust's name on it then you're good to go. And as far as the Feds are concerned, they couldn't care less if you have a concealed carry permit, though your state might throw in some extra hurdles for NFA ownership.
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Old December 30, 2013, 05:31 PM   #9
RED_beard92
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Oh, also not to sound stupid but what is your trust? Is that like a business? i just want it for my own person use so would i ignore everything trust related?
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Old December 30, 2013, 05:57 PM   #10
Theohazard
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In order to own an NFA item you need a Form 1 (if you're building it yourself) or Form 4 (if you're buying it from a person or a dealer) with a tax stamp affixed to show you paid your $200 transfer tax (or $5 for AOWs). Before the Form 1 or Form 4 is sent in to the BAFTE you need to get fingerprinted, photographed, and signed off by your chief law enforcement officer (often called a CLEO sign-off). However, you can bypass the CLEO sign-off requirement by purchasing the NFA item through a corporation or a revocable living trust.

A corporation is usually a bad idea and almost nobody does it. However, a trust can be fairly simple to have a lawyer set up (and some people even use generic form trusts if their state laws aren't too wacky and if they don't need their trust to be complicated). This means that the trust is technically the owner of the NFA item and you're in control of the trust. There are two main advantages to this: 1, it doesn't require a CLEO sign-off, which is impossible to get in many places. And 2, you can put your wife or other people on the trust so they can possess the item also.

Technically, only the entity listed at the top of the Form 1 or Form 4 can possess the item. And if you purchased it in your name with a CLEO sign-off that means your name is on the form so only you can possess it; other people can use it only if you're with them. But I wanted my wife to be able to possess my NFA items also, so I purchased them through a trust; the trust name is on my Form 4s and both of us are on the trust, so we can each possess my NFA items independent from each other. Also, virtually no CLEO will sign off in my neck of the woods so a trust was pretty much my only option.
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Old December 30, 2013, 11:27 PM   #11
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If you are worried about how short you can make it, take it to a smith that can do such work and ask him. Take what ever he says and add about 1/4th and inch to be safe. When you get your stamp bring the paper work with you are show him the length. He should be able to cut it that short.

The other thing you can do is do a form 4. Bring the gun to a smith that does such work and sells these types of guns. Get a quote from him for the price if you provide the gun. Let him make the gun then fill out the form based on what he made. The down side to doing it this way is you will not have the gun untill you get the stamp back.
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Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 25 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple
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Old December 31, 2013, 01:49 PM   #12
Rob62
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There is an excellent thread on Trusts and how they work here. It explains everything very well.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527153

Happy New Year,

Rob
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