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Old December 23, 2013, 01:04 PM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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Armed Neighbor Joins in Gunfight to Save Neighbors

I came across this story of armed self-defense:
http://www.baynews9.com/content/news...y_triple_.html

Summary: A man heard shots coming from his neighbors house. He grabbed his own gun and entered his neighbors house and killed the man attacking his neighbors. Both neighbors were shot and rushed to the hospital. If they live, they'll pretty much owe their lives to this man making the decision to step into an active gunfire situation in someone else's house.

I brought this up because even with a considerable amount of training; that is a lot of risk to take on. I thought a discussion of how you could mitigate the risk in this kind of circumstance might be worthwhile. I also thought the discussion might help us identify some of the risks in trying to intervene in that kind of situation.
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Old December 23, 2013, 01:14 PM   #2
Dwight55
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At the very best, . . . in the best of circumstances, . . . this is a bad situation to ever get in: an active gun fight.

We can really never prepare fully for such, . . . but realize that if you do go, . . . take firepower with you, . . . not a pea shooter.

You want something that will take down your opposition, . . . NOW, . . . and if possible something that may have some element of intimidation to it.

I would most likely grab my AR, . . . but maybe the semi-auto shotgun, . . . depending on the neighbor and the neighborhood. In my own, with my close neighbors, . . . I know them well, . . . know the layout of the houses, . . .

Going in has to be a slicing the pie situation, . . . hopefully getting some sort of idea what is going on through the windows before entering.

Entering is the most dangerous part of course, . . . everyone in there may take you for another enemy and open up on you.

Of my 4 or 5 close neighbors, . . . I would never hesitate, . . . others I don't know as well, . . . they may be on their own.

May God bless,
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Old December 23, 2013, 02:26 PM   #3
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Missing from the posted summary, but not the article, is that the "neighbor" who lived next door and intervened is the son of one of the victims.

Seems like he had a little skin in the game, which explains his willingness to enter the home.
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Old December 23, 2013, 02:36 PM   #4
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Also missing from the posted summary, but not from the article, was that all of the people involved knew each other. It was still a brave thing to do but I'll bet there's a lot more to the story that hasn't come out yet.
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Old December 23, 2013, 03:25 PM   #5
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Man I don't know?!?!?!?!

I guess it depends on so many things that in order to determine if I would get involved I would have to be living it.

Walking into a knife fight with a gun is risky enough but a active gun fight - well someone is getting shot and I don't want to be that someone.
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Old December 23, 2013, 04:02 PM   #6
Bartholomew Roberts
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Apparently they have updated the story since I made my initial post and added additional detail. Still a tough tactical situation though.
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Old December 23, 2013, 04:13 PM   #7
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Just being neighborly takes on a new meaning altho my closeest neighbor is a 1/4 mile away...
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Old December 23, 2013, 06:23 PM   #8
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All the same issues faced by LE responding to an active shooter, WITHOUT body armor or anybody to assist.

Tough call, but how do you not go if its your parents?
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Old December 24, 2013, 10:37 PM   #9
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If it is family, I go no question.
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Old December 25, 2013, 08:23 PM   #10
raimius
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Definitely call the police/EMS. It would stink to "save the day" only to bleed out because no one can reach a phone!

If you own it, donning some body armor would be smart.
Of course, having trained and practiced single-man room clearing would be pretty valuable!

In all, it's not a pretty situation to face. Throwing yourself into a gunfight is generally a stupid solution to the problem. Two way gunfights are nasty enough, but throw in a third choice?! That said, sometimes it can be a "man in the arena" moment where it is more worth it to risk death/permanent disability than sit by.
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Old December 26, 2013, 12:19 AM   #11
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Read the article folks. The neighbor was his son.
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Old December 26, 2013, 12:38 AM   #12
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Regardless the discussion re tactics, these are intriguing statements.

Quote:
all of the people knew each other.
Quote:
At this point, it's not clear what led up to the shooting.
I'll be very interested to read further details.

But yeah, if we're talking close family members, vest/no vest, whatever, I'm going in.
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Old December 26, 2013, 02:37 AM   #13
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If I heard gunshots at my parents house next door, I'd go without second thought. I'm home which means I already have my beretta on me. My parents can't wait, I need to go ASAP so unless my extra mag is within reach, I'm leaving it and bolting out the door. I'll just have to hope that 16 rds can do the job, which statistically and judging by my own skill, should. If not, God didn't want me to save the day. I know this isn't the ideal way to go about this, but I feel if the situation was actually happening, this is how it'd go.
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Old December 26, 2013, 02:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
If you own it, donning some body armor would be smart.
Are you sure?

If you wind up being charged with a crime body armor will add another very hard to dodge Federal Offense to the charge even if the State doesn't have issue with it.

Of course, you can weight that against the fact that it could save your life.
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Old December 26, 2013, 03:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcpiper
If you wind up being charged with a crime body armor will add another very hard to dodge Federal Offense to the charge even if the State doesn't have issue with it.
What's illegal about body armor?
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Old December 26, 2013, 04:02 PM   #16
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Body armor + crime = Federal felony. It's something worth considering.
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Old December 26, 2013, 04:51 PM   #17
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Thanks for the info on body armor. You are correct.

Of course, I am stunned by the stupidity of yet more anti-personal-safety laws.
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Old December 26, 2013, 05:59 PM   #18
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About the only question that needs to be answered is whether you can live with the consequences of your actions or lack there of. Helps to think beforehand not only the immediate consequences, as in life and death but other related nuances as possibly being criminaly prosecuted, nasty civil lawsuits, massive legal expenses, ext. If it's your son as in the example brought forth or a close family member or friend, it's clear enough. Start deviating and the water gets murky pretty quickly.
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Old December 26, 2013, 06:37 PM   #19
veamon
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What at the legal ramifications of leaving your house and going to a neighbors to help? Isn't the doctrine to retreat and what not? I would do the same thing if I was in the same situation, but with our government and court systems...
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Old December 26, 2013, 10:18 PM   #20
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The worst possible result is that you step in to "save" your neighbor's and kill the perceived bad guy and then learn that it was your neighbor's who were trying to kill him and that he had successfully managed to defend himself from the attack when you barged in and killed him.

As has turned up in several incidents, just because the shooting happens on the owner's home turf does not mean that the owner are not the bad guys.

Quote:
Are you sure?

If you wind up being charged with a crime body armor will add another very hard to dodge Federal Offense to the charge even if the State doesn't have issue with it.
Yes, I am sure. If I was to enter into the middle of a gun battle, I would much rather do it with body armor than without. That there is a gun battle is a known risk. That you might be charged is not known and it generally does not pose a lethal risk.

If you are more worried about possible future charges than protecting your life right now, then your priorities are in the wrong order. You need to be alive to be prosecuted.
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Old December 27, 2013, 12:56 AM   #21
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Quote:
You need to be alive to be prosecuted.
Good point.

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Old December 27, 2013, 02:41 AM   #22
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Under most circumstances, I wouldn't do anything but protect my own family and dial 911.

But, in the townhouse I currently live (but only for a couple more weeks! ), I share a wall with a nice woman I might consider risking my life to help.
Her soon-to-be ex-husband was violent and abusive, and recently threatened to shoot her AND all of their kids.

If I heard gunshots in her unit, I just don't think I could sit back and wait to see what the end result would be.

I don't know. It would be a tough call.
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Old December 27, 2013, 04:17 PM   #23
Archie
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Sort of like Hebrew National company...

I answer to higher authority.

Having said that, I won't blindly run into just anything. However, I have good neighbors I know (if they're trying to shoot someone, it's a good shoot) and can discern 'us' from 'them'. I have some other neighbors I don't know as well and would hesitate to enter, simply because I don't know all the players.

I don't live in PDSR California anymore, where commoners are expected to die as victims rather than inconvenience either an attacker or the police (in sorting out the bodies after the fact). I'm in Nebraska, outside the big city mentality of Omaha and Lincoln.

Yes, I would be answering questions for an extended period - which is normal. The police really have a 'bug' about figuring out what happened when shots are fired and people are injured. Sort of an occupational idiosyncrasy. So an informed citizen - even an armed one - expects to answer lots of questions.

I still will not knowingly stand by and allow evil to operate with impunity.
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Old December 30, 2013, 01:08 AM   #24
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bit biased as the neighboor is the son. Someone else shooting at my family woult want to make me take my own gun out of the safe
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Old January 1, 2014, 11:33 PM   #25
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dial 911

Two different situations, two different responses. My family doesn't live next door, but if they did and I heard shots I'd be there in a heartbeat. But then I'd know the "good guys" from the bad. And since I don't know the majority of my neighbors, and don't have any way of separating the wheat from the chaff in a moments notice, I'd call the police. If the shtf and a good guy is shot by the police, they have the benefit of legal protection that I probably couldn't afford.
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