The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 23, 2013, 09:05 AM   #1
buckeyefan012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2013
Posts: 14
Beretta

Three questions for you guys.

First up, what's the differences between the M9 and 92fs?

Second, why does army SF use the M9 and not the 92fs?

Finally, is there a reason beyond contracts that SF uses Beretta?
buckeyefan012 is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 10:21 AM   #2
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: East Central Florida
Posts: 4,704
These 2 sites will answer your questions


http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/true_story_m9.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_92fs
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 10:24 AM   #3
Dragline45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 2,310
Quote:
First up, what's the differences between the M9 and 92fs?
Nothing except the sight system, and of course onc is marked M9 on the slide and the other 92FS. The 92FS uses 3 dot sights where the M9 uses all black post sights. I prefer the 3 dot.

Quote:
Second, why does army SF use the M9 and not the 92fs?
Because the 92FS is the civillian model and the M9 is the military model. Other than that I can't tell you why, probably just to differentiate the two.

Quote:
Finally, is there a reason beyond contracts that SF uses Beretta?
If by SF you mean special forces, special forces often get to choose not only their main gun such as a rifle, but their sidearm as well. While some may use the Beretta, Navy Seals often choose the Sig's.
Dragline45 is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 10:37 AM   #4
Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2000
Posts: 3,580
The 92FS also has a slanted dust cover which I find more attractive, and a grip that is a bit more ergonomic with an indentation where the web of your hand fits a bit better. The M9 has stayed the M9 due to the contract specs, the 92FS has evolved a bit. The both shoot the same.
__________________
Pilot
Pilot is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 10:38 AM   #5
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don P
You can also find an exhaustive breakdown of the entire 92 series at the following link:

http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=98238
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan012
what's the differences between the M9 and 92fs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragline45
Nothing except the sight system, and of course onc is marked M9 on the slide and the other 92FS. The 92FS uses 3 dot sights where the M9 uses all black post sights.
Dragline45, there are also a handful of other minor differences, most of which are cosmetic. Refer to the Beretta Forum link I just posted.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 10:57 AM   #6
buckeyefan012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2013
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragline45 View Post
If by SF you mean special forces, special forces often get to choose not only their main gun such as a rifle, but their sidearm as well. While some may use the Beretta, Navy Seals often choose the Sig's.

Yes, I do mean Army special forces as in Green Berets. Technically Seals aren't SF but SOF. Unless otherwise noted SF is army and SOF can be other special forces from other branches. Most people use these interchangeably but they are different.

I know SEALs use Sigs and they have a ton of room to pick their own weapons. I also know SF have this option too but it seems to me that they are more restricted than SEALs and was wondering if anyone here knew why this might be the case. If I had to guess I would assume it was big army stuff and tied to contracts but who knows.
buckeyefan012 is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 11:33 AM   #7
buckeyefan012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2013
Posts: 14
Thanks for the answers guys and the fast responses. I'll read up on those links you sent when I get a minute later today. Not really interested in the Beretta but I just wanted to learn.
buckeyefan012 is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 12:05 PM   #8
Arizona Fusilier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2000
Posts: 748
+1 on those links. I too will plow into them more when I have more time.
Arizona Fusilier is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 02:02 PM   #9
lamarw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 1,552
It is an interesting subject to some degree. I have served with and known a lot of Green Beret/Special Forces Men to include Rangers. I put them all in the same high category of well trained soldiers. In my experience (Nam Era) they were in no more of a hazardous position than most of the rest of us field soldiers (I was in the combat engineers/a jungle clearing unit). They generally were very dedicated to helping our friendly forces comrades in their training and insertion into combat. Typically they carried the same military issued firearms. I do not recall ever meeting a Navy Seal.

I do think there maybe a big difference when you speak of what I might describe as Delta Forces. I am sure they tailor their firearms to the mission at hand. They are so well trained and qualified as to be able to handle any tool for their mission. God Bless them all.

In my experience it was not so much the specifics of the firearm but rather how much ammo you could carry to accommodate an engagement. Air Cover and artillery support were often the difference to coming home. The guys flying the hueys with the white crosses were the heros. I suspect the same is true today.

Last edited by JohnKSa; December 24, 2013 at 12:43 AM. Reason: Off Topic Comment Deleted.
lamarw is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 02:48 PM   #10
Reloader2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2013
Posts: 165
My M9 has a three dot sight.
Reloader2 is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 03:22 PM   #11
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 5,263
Quote:
First up, what's the differences between the M9 and 92fs?
none whatsoever. there are some slight differences but nothing that is even remotely noticeable to most shooters. a while back there was some kid(as in a minor) on here claiming that he regularly shot with SEALs and that he could tell the difference between the two with his eyes closed, but I've never seen a single other shooter who could make the same claim.

Quote:
Second, why does army SF use the M9 and not the 92fs?
because the 92FS has always been the civilian model. the M9 has been the military designation. much like a person with a PSA15 rifle has a semi auto equivalent of the FN Herstal made M16 rifle but no military unit actually uses the PSA15 with a modified trigger group. beretta advertizes an M9 pistol for civilians but I really can't see any difference besides the finish.

Quote:
Finally, is there a reason beyond contracts that SF uses Beretta?
only someone in special forces can tell you that but I'm guessing the answer is no.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 05:38 PM   #12
buckeyefan012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2013
Posts: 14
Thanks for all your responses guys. Just wanted to clear something up. I know the M9 is the military version but I was hoping to find out why they use that and not the 92fs. I know why some of their rifles and carbines are different due to select fire capabilities, barrel length, etc. But I've yet to figure out what major difference exists between the M9 that makes the army use that one.
buckeyefan012 is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 06:15 PM   #13
DubC-Hicks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2009
Location: Backwoods, Northern MI
Posts: 398
I think (could very well be wrong though), that the M9 style came around first. Then Beretta came out with the 92 for civilian market later, with the slight changes. I.E. Radiused backstrap, slanted dust cover, and 3 dot sights.
__________________
”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown
DubC-Hicks is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 06:29 PM   #14
Reloader2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2013
Posts: 165
I could be wrong but I believe the M9 is manufactured in USA which makes for good PR.
Reloader2 is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 06:37 PM   #15
Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2000
Posts: 3,580
All the M9's are manufactured in the U.S. by contract. The 92FS is made both in the U.S., and Italy. I have Italian, and U.S. made 92FS's.
__________________
Pilot
Pilot is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 06:56 PM   #16
Bart Noir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2000
Location: Puget Sound, USA
Posts: 1,524
Quote:
My M9 has a three dot sight.
Which says that yours is not a "real" M9, unless it was stolen from US Gov and refitted with newer sights. But the Beretta commercial model marked M9 could have those civilian dot sights.

DubC-Hicks, you have it precisely reversed. The Model 92 existed before the US military had the competition that led to the adoption of the M9. The US asked for some minor changes which the links above probably explain fully, and Beretta made changes for the civilian model, hence 92F and 92FS.. I should go there now and have a read.

Bart Noir
__________________
“There’s a rattle in my glove box,
A Federal twelve-gauge slug.” – Adam Carroll in song Porter Wagoner
Bart Noir is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 07:12 PM   #17
DubC-Hicks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2009
Location: Backwoods, Northern MI
Posts: 398
I've never seen an M9 with 3 dot sights. The new commercial version still has the dot and post, at least mine and 5 or 6 at the local shop do.
__________________
”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown
DubC-Hicks is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 08:17 PM   #18
Noreaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2011
Location: New England
Posts: 1,315
Beretta armorer. The course is the same for M9, A1, and 92fs. I believe it has been explained above. Just think of the Sig P228 (Army CID pistol.) The Military designated it as the M11. The US holds the pattern on the M9 and can use outside vendors for replacement parts (which has turned out to be a huge mistake for the most part.)
Noreaster is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 08:35 PM   #19
Dragline45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 2,310
Quote:
My M9 has a three dot sight.
Are you referring to the M9A1? I have one and it has an M9A1 frame, with a 92FS slide with the three dot sights. Even says 92FS on the slide itself.
Dragline45 is offline  
Old December 23, 2013, 08:44 PM   #20
lamarw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 1,552
Bart has it right. Lets face it the pistol is a side arm and not nearly as important in most all combat situations.

I carried my M1911A1, but only used it one. The old M-16 was what we depended upon. I carried it and 36 magazines loaded with 18 rounds each.
lamarw is offline  
Old December 24, 2013, 12:38 AM   #21
Reloader2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2013
Posts: 165
My bad!!! It is a post and dot on the commercial M9. Been awhile since I've shot it.
Reloader2 is offline  
Old December 24, 2013, 12:42 AM   #22
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 17,943
Quote:
I know SEALs use Sigs...
Some may, but not all. Some use the M9.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old December 24, 2013, 04:05 PM   #23
Technosavant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 3,795
Quote:
But I've yet to figure out what major difference exists between the M9 that makes the army use that one.
That's because there isn't a major difference. The military gives "M" designations to small arms. When they signed a contract to use the 92FS series, the military designation for that is the M9. There's only very minor differences between the two, mostly in keeping with the contract Beretta has with the military.
Technosavant is online now  
Old December 24, 2013, 11:48 PM   #24
IZinterrogator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2004
Location: Pierce County, WA
Posts: 2,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Noir View Post
Which says that yours is not a "real" M9, unless it was stolen from US Gov and refitted with newer sights. But the Beretta commercial model marked M9 could have those civilian dot sights.

Bart Noir
Half of the M9s in my company's arms room have three-dot sights now. Since the Army is still in possession of them, I can assure you that they're not stolen.
IZinterrogator is online now  
Old December 30, 2013, 04:58 PM   #25
Bart Noir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2000
Location: Puget Sound, USA
Posts: 1,524
Thanks IZ, for the update. Do you know if those 3-dot sights were added since those particular M9s were purchased by Big Green?

Bart Noir
__________________
“There’s a rattle in my glove box,
A Federal twelve-gauge slug.” – Adam Carroll in song Porter Wagoner
Bart Noir is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13028 seconds with 7 queries