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Old December 22, 2013, 03:59 PM   #51
Venom1956
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Jmr40 beat me to the punch. Least I don't need to type all that.

Pistols encompass both revolvers and semi-autos.

Quote:
I have put many thousands of rounds through a P-229 w/o a single problem.
yes and many have done the same with many other brands of gun. An exceptional example does not mean ALL Sigs will follow suit. That also does not mean most Sigs are poor either. They are simply imperfectly made tools that can have issues.

I've seen plenty of guns have issues:

Kimber
Springfield
Taurus
Ruger
S&W
AKs
ARs
Kahr
Glock
Sig
Kel-Tec

To blindly assume that one gun maker is beyond criticism simply because your pistol has been a positive example doesn't make much sense.

I own several guns made by companies on that list. Luckily save for Taurus none of mine the ones that gave me issues. I simply require all my firearms to prove themselves through use. Not on reputation, this can aid in the decision to purchase certainly, but until some range time who can say?
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Old December 22, 2013, 04:09 PM   #52
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Kraigwy, I agree with you totally about people shooting enough to be really familiar with their guns. It always amazes me that people will reply when asked about a guns reliability with," I've had it a couple of years and have shot about 600 rounds through it." 600 rounds is about what i will put through a gun on a single range trip.
I prefer revolvers because I always have been more worried about having to clear a jam while being attacked at close range than I am about running out of ammo. YMMV.

Last edited by couldbeanyone; December 22, 2013 at 04:39 PM.
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Old December 22, 2013, 04:53 PM   #53
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Ease of reloads

Seems to be a big issue for many handgun shooters. My personal opinion is, reload speed is over rated.

Ease of operation and reliability are the two characteristics of handguns that are most important to me. DA Revolver---pick it up and point and shoot. Doesn't get much easier than that.

Kraigwy speaks from much experience. Not all handgun shooters will spend a lot of time at the range, practicing drawing and shooting and reloading several days per month. Some LE people don't spend much time at the range, and their lives are many times more likely to be threatened by evil doers than an ordinary citizen. Thus, as a general statement, to me, revolvers are the most reliable easiest using handguns.
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Old December 22, 2013, 05:04 PM   #54
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Quote:
BTW, I have never, ever had a Sig malfunction nor have I ever heard of a Sig malfunctioning.
My wifes Sig 238 malfunctioned a great deal and took multiple trips to sig and finally to a local smith to fix it. The gun would not feed most ammo. Sig kept telling us to feed it Magtec but I did not pay for a gun that will only run 1 brand of ammo. Finally a Local smith polished up a lot of parts including the feed ramp and the gun now works well.

Every auto I have had has malfunctioned. I have only had 1 malfunction with a revolver and that was a Taurus Judge that would not lock back in to single action. Taurus eventually gave me a new gun.
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Old December 22, 2013, 05:45 PM   #55
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Venom1956,

Do you know anyone who'd make this assumption:


"To blindly assume that one gun maker is beyond criticism simply because your pistol has been a positive example doesn't make much sense."
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Old December 22, 2013, 05:46 PM   #56
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Deja Vu,

Sounds like you bought a lemon.
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Old December 22, 2013, 05:47 PM   #57
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Colorado Redneck,

Why would you think reload speed is overrated?
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Old December 22, 2013, 05:49 PM   #58
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2damnold4this,

Were I you, I wouldn't buy a Sig. If you own one, sell it.
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Old December 22, 2013, 07:00 PM   #59
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Quote:
I had a bullet dislodge from its case preventing my Model 60's cylinder from rotating.

Revolvers, like all mechanical devices, can fail.
This was an ammo problem, not a failure of the gun (mechanical device).
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Old December 22, 2013, 07:19 PM   #60
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Quote:
This was an ammo problem, not a failure of the gun (mechanical device).
While it was an ammo problem, the gun still failed to work, due to its design.

Leaving the ammo out of the gun to insure 100% reliability doesnt seem to make a lot of sense though.
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Old December 22, 2013, 08:50 PM   #61
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SansSouci---re: reloading speed

That is just my opinion. Not trying to convince anyone they should think that way. In the first place, the probability that I will shoot my revolver in a life threatening situation is probably 0.0001. Then if I consider the probability that I will have to reload it that is probably 0.001 not worth the effort IMHO.

YMMV and I certainly respect your opinion if it differs from mine. By all means, if that is a factor in your decision of what gun to carry, then give it high consideration.
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Old December 22, 2013, 09:31 PM   #62
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I mostly own and shoot only revolvers. My CCW gun is a Ruger SP101 chambered in .357 Magnum. This gun provides me with 5 rounds to eliminate any threat. If I need more than 5 rounds then I have put myself in a situation and or area that I should not be in.

I have owned several semi-automatics and I can not shoot them accurately. I have shot many semi-automatics including 1911 with the same results. All my rounds end up low left. I have practiced with them on my own and had formal training with out any improvement.

Now if you put a revolver in my hand I can shoot the center out of any target out with out any issues. Plus I love the magnum loads that you can shoot in revolvers.
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Old December 22, 2013, 09:42 PM   #63
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OxyGuy,

Absolutely it was defective ammo. However, the result was an inoperable weapon that took about five minutes to resolve.
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Old December 22, 2013, 09:45 PM   #64
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Colorado_Redneck,

That's a fair answer.

It might be a good idea to practice reloading your primary self-defense weapon in various conditions; e.g., darkness, one arm incapacitated, tactical reload, etc.

Jus' sayin'...


Merry Christmas
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Old December 22, 2013, 09:46 PM   #65
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Do a google search on "pistol jams on officer during shootout" and you will definitely consider the revolver a lot more. There are many counts of the auto pistol jamming on the officer during a life and death situation. Way to many in my opinion. And these are not cheap guns either. We are talking about Beretta's, Browning Hi-Powers, Smith & Wessons, Glocks, and etc. There are also many counts of autos jamming on the criminals as well but of course most of those were cheap guns.
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Old December 22, 2013, 09:46 PM   #66
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Quote:
I have owned several semi-automatics and I can not shoot them accurately. I have shot many semi-automatics including 1911 with the same results. All my rounds end up low left. I have practiced with them on my own and had formal training with out any improvement.
One difference between revolvers and autoloaders that I don't recall being mentioned in this thread is that, with revolvers, you can adjust the hand to gun interface to a much greater extent. With autoloader, the grip shape and size is constrained by having a single or double stack magazine sunning up through it. With a revolver, all you have to accommodate is the grip frame (or grip peg in a Ruger).
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Old December 22, 2013, 09:50 PM   #67
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FloridaGuy,

Has your self-defense scenarios included more than one bad guy?

Do you carry magnum rounds in your gun? If so, you might want to shoot it at night. Magnum muzzle flash is blinding, not a good thing when trying to retain sight picture.

I have a Model 60. With +P loads, it is a difficult gun to control, especially one-handed.

BTW, when I owned a 586, I carried .38 Special 158 grain SWCHP for self-defense in it.


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Old December 22, 2013, 10:26 PM   #68
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My self-defense scenarios contain up to 3 bad Guys.

I train with my CCW gun 3 times a week for at least 1hour. I average 1000 rounds fired every month.

Mostly I carry either one of the following rounds.

Speer Gold Dot 357 Magnum 125gr GDHP
or
BlazerBrass 357 Magnum 158gr JHP

For training purposes I shoot my reloads mostly 125gr RNFT with a magnum powder load.

I shoot a lot at night and really am not worried about the muzzle flash. I am more concerned with the loudness of the round especially in an enclosed space.
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Old December 22, 2013, 10:35 PM   #69
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For some things I like a 9mm, for other things a 44mag. It is nice having more than one hammer in a tool box.
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Old December 23, 2013, 01:59 AM   #70
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Quote:
BTW, I have never, ever had a Sig malfunction nor have I ever heard of a Sig malfunctioning.
Sig Mosquito, 'nuff said.
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Old December 23, 2013, 09:39 AM   #71
SansSouci
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SHE3PDOG,

What part of "I've never..." is causing you trouble?

Is a Mosquito a self-defense weapon?

Nuff said.
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Old December 23, 2013, 11:30 AM   #72
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Quote:
Thanks for all the responses guys. Just looking around for a gun that's fun to shoot and has a defense capability. I just like the style of single action revolvers.
I think most would agree that you have to be better with a SA than with other types of handguns in order for them to be effective in self defense. Your first handgun is going to be your only handgun for at least a little while, so it may be best to get a more capable SD handgun first and make the SA a second "fun gun" purchase.

Re semi vs revolver: I was a life-long revolver guy until switching to semis a few years back. Capacity was my main reason. Ease and speed of reloads kind of contribute to capacity, in a way. I understand the argument of reliability, but quality modern pistols with quality modern ammunition don't fail very often at all. I can't honestly think of a failure that wasn't related to either ammo (cheap range stuff) or operator error (my daughter limp wristed a couple of times when she was first learning). I don't think the risk of failure is zero, but it isn't substantial enough to change my mind and override the considerations of capacity, either. Obviously, other people feel differently. Ain't it great that we get to choose?
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Old December 23, 2013, 11:37 AM   #73
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Quote:
I'd say the advantages of a revolver are it's durability and ability to accept 357 and 44 mag. And the advantages of pistols are more rounds per reload. What do you guys think the advantages are between the 2. Which do you prefer?
I see no specific mention of defensive handguns in the OP. SO, ALL arguments about the advantages of one, over the other, for defense, are only PART of the picture.

Pick a point in favor of one, and there is a counterpoint for the other. Some are better for somethings, others for others.

Lots of broad blanket statements have been made already, and as often the case, not all are fully accurate.

First off, let's make clear the difference between an ammunition malfunction and a firearm malfunction. The only thing they have in common is the failure of the gun to fire. Everything else (the why, and what you do to fix it) is different.

If a bullet jumps crimp and ties up your revolver, that is no more a revolver malfunction than when a flat tire stops your car. There is nothing wrong with the design of your engine because a flat tire stops you from driving.

"Revolver come in .357 and .44" Guess what kids, so do autopistols. I have some.

"Autos don't jam (because mine never has)" A wonderful belief, but one without any factual basis.

Remember that unless you are specifically talking about defense guns (which the OP was not) then autos includes all the .22LR autos out there, and as a class, .22s jam, or otherwise malfunction more than anything else, period.

A lot is made of the speed of reloading an auto pistol. It is nice, and convenient, but outside of playing games where a reload is required, just how important is it to practical self defense? (which is a different matter from duty use by law enforcement or military)

Take any revolver and any auto, without a spare magazine or speedloader, just a box of loose cartridges, and reload. Which one takes longer?

Autos have their drawbacks, so do revolvers, and while some are the same, some are different, and need to be addressed differently.

Neither one is perfect in all matters or in all situations. My handgun collection is split about evenly between revolvers & autos, with a couple of single shots included as well.

When comparing autos vs revolvers, there are only a few points where it is a true "apples to apple" comparison. All the other points, while interesting are, essentially, irrelevant.
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Old December 23, 2013, 09:30 PM   #74
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I thought of an important difference between semi-autos (I stand corrected now that I know pistols include revolvers) and revolvers--the ability to rack the slide. For older folk or for people with weaker hands, the slide on the semi-auto may be impossible to rack. For those people a revolver is their only choice.
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Old December 23, 2013, 10:35 PM   #75
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Quote:
...revolvers are more reliable due to fewer moving parts and less dependence on tight tolerances.
While revolvers may be more reliable, it is not due to fewer moving parts or less dependence on tight tolerances. In general, revolvers tend to have more moving parts than semi-autos and are more dependent on tight tolerances.
Quote:
For older folk or for people with weaker hands, the slide on the semi-auto may be impossible to rack. For those people a revolver is their only choice.
The problem is that the people I've worked with who have serious hand strength issues generally have problems with the DA trigger pull of revolvers. In addition, they often find the recoil of revolvers intolerable or extremely unpleasant.

Finally, there are autopistols out there with very easily operated slides, as well as a few that don't require operating the slide at all.

The main advantages of revolvers that I see are:

They are less dependent on ammunition quality.
They are typically simpler to operate.
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