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Old December 14, 2013, 12:41 PM   #1
ncrypt
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CFE 223 Pressure signs?

Hey guys. Second post, so go easy on me. Fairly new to reloading rifle loads. I picked up a pound of the CFE 223 and I'm a little unsure if what I'm seeing is pressure signs or not. The primers don't really look flattened (looks the same after shooting factory loads) but I see slight ejector swipes. Accuracy is what I'm looking for.

Info:

Sig 716 7.62/308
CCI 200 primers
Hornady 150 FMJBT
48.4 grains CFE 223 (start load on the Hogdon site)
Military PMC brass

I would appreciate it if you guys could look this image over and give me your thoughts.

http://www.tcproimages.com/photos/i-.../i-gQvxN7m.jpg

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Old December 14, 2013, 12:54 PM   #2
wncchester
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First, trying to guess anything helpful about chamber pressure from primers is as helpful as reading the entrails of a goat, forget it.

I haven't used any CFE yet but it's just another powder so I doubt it exhibits any unsual pressure signs.
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Old December 14, 2013, 01:13 PM   #3
ncrypt
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thanks. I appreciate that advice. The internet can be wonderful and misleading all at the same time. I'm working with start loads, but just want to be sure.

Here is a shot of some CBC rounds:
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Old December 14, 2013, 01:32 PM   #4
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Are you sure the charge is accurate? If so, then go here for a read on "swipe".

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/i...se-head-swipe/
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Old December 14, 2013, 01:48 PM   #5
ncrypt
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Thanks Steve, Great article. I weigh several rounds as I reload both with digital and balance and it checks out. I do get some fluctuation in my drops, but within a few 1/10s.

Last edited by ncrypt; December 14, 2013 at 01:58 PM.
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Old December 14, 2013, 08:22 PM   #6
Jimro
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That level of "swipe" is not an issue in my experience.

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Old December 14, 2013, 10:22 PM   #7
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I see the swipes on both sets of cases. They seem a bit more prominent on the CFE cases. Do you have any experience loading other powders for this specific rifle?

Were there other signs of pressure? Tight bolt lift, click on bolt life? Difficult extraction?

If so, you know the answer. What was your OAL? Were the bullets jammed? Lots of questions to be answered.

Good luck,
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Old December 14, 2013, 10:43 PM   #8
Mike38
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Quote:
First, trying to guess anything helpful about chamber pressure from primers is as helpful as reading the entrails of a goat, forget it.
Not sure I agree with that.

I’ve been “playing around” with CFE223 this past summer on .223 ammo. My first round of putting holes in paper was 10 rounds each of the following. 55 grain V-Max bullets. Remington Bench Rest primers. Winchester brass. Powder charges 25.5, 26.0, 26.5, 27.0, 27.5. Shot in that order. When I reached the 27.0 charge, I noticed that the primer was starting to flow back into the firing pin channel. Did not notice that on the lower charges. I then shot the 27.5 grain charge. I stopped after 5 rounds. The primer flow was getting bad, and had 2 empties that were difficult to extract. so I quit shooting. The primer flow was my first sign that I was getting up there in pressures. The difficulty to extract was the major clue it was time to stop. So, by reading the primers, I was able to see it coming. That sounds helpful to me.

BTW, my most accurate load was with the 26.0 grain charge, in case anyone is wondering.
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Old December 15, 2013, 01:30 AM   #9
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OK for starters the 48.4gr load is 1gr off max load in my Hornady 9th book

My book shows , when loading 150gr to 155gr bullets
42.4gr = 2300fps (low load)
43.9gr = 2400fps
45.3gr = 2500fps
46.7gr = 2600fps
48.2gr = 2700fps
49.6gr = 2800fps ( Max load in red )

This is for a standard 308 win with 22" barrel . The book does not have CFE in the service rifle data
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Old December 15, 2013, 03:24 AM   #10
tangolima
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I don't like having any ejector cutout indentation marks on the case head. They are indicative of high pressure.

-TL
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Old December 15, 2013, 06:42 AM   #11
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Great images from your 5D Mark II. : )
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Old December 15, 2013, 10:08 AM   #12
ncrypt
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rdukwor:
I saw the same issue when I tried BLC-2 with start load (45 grains). My favorite powder is IMR 4895 and I don't see the swipes. Primers looked the same though.

No other signs. It's an AR10 and didn't have any issues with extraction. No jams.

OAL is around 2 .710. I seat them to the cannelur. I still grapple with this since bullets vary in length. COL on the IMR site is 2 .800

metal god:
Thanks for the info. That's significantly different than the IMR site, which is where I got the start load. So frustrating trying to figure out the right place to start when data is this dangerously different. Max on the IMR site is 51.5.

powdermonkey :
Ha, thanks man.

So after reading the article posted above about CHS vs ejector marks, I plan to turn the gas block off (it has a few settings to include off) and look for any over pressure signs in single action mode. I may also use the smaller hole setting (for a suppressor) to see if this effects the timing. With metal god's post, I'm worried I'm at max already and need to disassemble all of them.

thanks everyone
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Old December 15, 2013, 10:14 AM   #13
Jimro
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If turning off the gas port gets rid of the wipe then it is a timing issue as 4895 isn't giving you wipe I'd think that is the most likely culprit.

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Old December 15, 2013, 05:49 PM   #14
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Thanks! I hope so, I don't want to take all of them apart unless I have to.
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Old December 16, 2013, 07:04 PM   #15
Clark
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Pressure sign?
I can't get more than 40 gr of CFE223 to go off with a CCI450 small magnum primer in 260 Rem 120 gr Nos Bal Tip.
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Old December 21, 2013, 02:38 PM   #16
ncrypt
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ok guys. I tested this with different gas block settings and different brass:

Gas Block off:
Just a very slight indention, but no swipe and only on the Winchester NATO brass. Nothing on the other Military brass I have.

Gas Block on Smallest hole:
Still had slight swipes but only on the NATO brass

Gas Block on the largest hole:
Little to no swipe, but still very slight marks from the bolt cutout on the NATO brass.

Dropped the powder to :

48 Grains: No swipes using Military brass (LC)
47.5 Grains: No swipes using Military brass (LC)
47 Grains: No swipes using Military brass (LC)

So, my conclusion is even with 48.4 grains of powder there is almost no swipe on the harder Mil brass so I'm going to shoot the remaining 48.4 grain rounds and probably lower it to around 48 just to be on the safe side.
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