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Old December 10, 2013, 08:51 PM   #1
sbaker10
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Lifespan of 10mm pistols shooting full loads?

Ive been in the mood for a hand cannon for quite some time, I don't want to go as big as a .44 or up having shot them I can say its a little hard on the wrists during extended shooting and even worse on the pocket book.


I narrowed it down to a 10mm possible in the rock island 1911 version, or a ruger gp100, there is a lot of meth labs where I live and I rarely but occasionally people startle meth cooks to bad ends.

I want a pistol that is somewhat affordable to shoot as I want to really dump a lot of rounds through it, but also has the power to stop a meth tweaker or any wild animals out in the woods. 10mm, and .357 are all the same price for target loads, a .357 revolver will last a extremely long time, more than I will ever put through it, full loads such as the buffalo bore jhp have a lot of power behind them and will punch through just about anything I shoot, having 6 shots also means I won't go through as much ammo so a little lighter on the pocket book, it is slower to reload however, and has about a 15lb double action trigger pull. A 10mm has about as much power behind it as a .357, a larger bullet and can be shot faster and reloaded if need be, plus I like the 1911 design.

But something i read about 10mms is people say don't shoot half them with full power loads as you might blow the gun apart, or at least wear it out a lot faster, I doubt I will shoot very many high powered rounds, mostly just target rounds, as they are cheaper, but I still want to be able to dump a few mags of hot stuff without worrying about blowing the gun apart or replacing springs every shooting trip.

So what is the lifespan of a 10mm vs a standard pistol like springfield xd which can last 100k
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Old December 11, 2013, 12:35 AM   #2
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Interesting. I am currently building a hi-cap 10mm 1911 on an early Para-Ordnance frame. I also want a gun that can handle hot 10mm loads - if not then to me it is just a bulky, glorified 40S&W.

I am thinking there are a few things that can be done to make this workable. One will be to add a buffered recoil assembly. Not one of those little pads at the back of the recoil lug but an assembly which incorporates a buffer within the recoil system.

One other thing which I am considering is to add weight to the slide. I might go with a longer slide to do this or I might add some tungsten inserts. Both approaches for adding weight are problematic but I want to consider every option.

Most 10mm 1911's already start with heavier recoil and hammer springs to bleed energy off the recoiling slide so I see those items as a requirement.
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Old December 11, 2013, 02:05 AM   #3
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one of my colleagues has a glock 20. he only shoots factory ammo and his own hot hand loads. he is north of 15,000 rounds with little signs of wear and accuracy is good. and you can buy two for the price of a 1911...lol
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Old December 11, 2013, 10:50 AM   #4
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If you are trying to duplicate the .357Mag in an auto loader, there's other choices in calibers with long records of reliability in the 1911 design.
Like the .38 super, the 9x23, 'etc., with thicker barrels and such, due to the smaller diameter.
Just a thought, if the 10mm is of concern.
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Old December 11, 2013, 12:03 PM   #5
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If you want ultimate longevity then the GP100 will last several lifetimes of full house loads. Power wise, a warm, no hot 10mm is about like a warm .357 Mag. The 10mm will have the capacity and size advantage, but it's hard to top the .357 Mag for something powerful yet easy to shoot.
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Old December 11, 2013, 01:40 PM   #6
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A 10mm 1911 is definitely going to wear out faster than a similar gun chambered in .45 ACP, if both are fed full-power loads. With a supply of spares, a .45 should be good for 100,000 rounds or more, and maybe a 10mm would see the same amount of wear in 10,000 rounds?
I've never seen the need to shoot a lot of full-power 10mm (paper and cardboard can't tell how fast the bullet is going), as I don't think the cartridge is well-suited for competition or self-defense, and there's no need to shoot a lot of rounds for hunting, beyond sight-in and staying current.
I probably have 2000 rounds through my Delta Elite, and no more than 10% have been full-power loads. I'm sure the gun will outlast me, seeing that kind of use.
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Old December 11, 2013, 03:11 PM   #7
buck460XVR
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If one can afford the cost of ammo to shoot out any quality handgun, they certainly can afford to repair or replace said handgun. Pretty simple. Off the top of my head, the firearms listed run in the $5-600 range. Going off Wal-Mart prices for ammo for those guns 10,000 rounds is ten times the price of the gun.
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Old December 11, 2013, 03:57 PM   #8
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If you are trying to duplicate the .357Mag in an auto loader...
...just get a .357 Mag auto loader.

A little thing called the Coonan Classic comes to mind...
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Old December 11, 2013, 04:58 PM   #9
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"Full power" is kind of relative. I shot those old, smoking hot Norma loads out of my Delta Elite......because it was the only choice available at the the time. Broke my gun with less than a hundred rounds through it.

Never had any issues firing anything else since then, although I still don't have a very high round count on it.

Colt definitely had quality issues at that time, but I am still not sure if the 1911 is the best platform for this round.

Last edited by Arizona Fusilier; December 11, 2013 at 05:05 PM.
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Old December 11, 2013, 05:03 PM   #10
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You are overthinking it. Your RIA should do fine as it is built for the 10mm, with a strong frame and fully supported chamber (relatively speaking for semis).

I have two Glock 20's (one Gen 4 stock RSA with KKM barrel and one Gen 3 Wolff 22# RSA with KKM barrel). The main problem I have encountered is with hot Underwoods. When shooting this ammo, if I don't really lock in my supporting hold, I can get some FTF's as the recoil impulse will push me around if I let it. This happens when I get too cute trying to finesse my hold and pull for accuracy. I forget to lock my elbows and wrist. With the light frame, you really need to hold on with hot loads, otherwise the base just isn't there during the strong recoil impulse...simple physics, really. It just takes practice and good fundamentals. With the steel frame RIA, you won't have this potential problem. But with less powerful loads, I have zero problems, regardless of how I hold my G20's. Again, simple physics.

As for battering...well, even if it was a problem, it wouldn't be one for many multiple thousands of rounds. Meanwhile, you will be walking with many more rounds of easily reloadable potent 10mm's on your hip, should you encounter one of those meth houses or whatever.
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Old December 11, 2013, 05:09 PM   #11
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but also has the power to stop a meth tweaker or any wild animals out in the woods
A shotgun comes to mind... pretty much can handle anything in the US.

Those feral unkillable druggys like a plague... If you put rounds in the proper spot they will go down just like anyone else. Drugs can perhaps allow a person to ignore or disregard some pain but it doesn't turn them to super men.
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Old December 11, 2013, 05:23 PM   #12
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You're overthinking things a bit. I'm a huge 10mm fan, but it isn't what you need or want here, although it would work. Nothing wrong with a 357 revolver either, but it still wouldn't be my first choice. Both of those are better suited for larger 4 legged predators and will do double duty for your needs.

I'd be looking at a gun I liked in common 45, 40, or 9mm chamberings. There is a reason they are the top 3 choices.
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Old December 11, 2013, 08:07 PM   #13
sbaker10
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I have a Springfield XD 9mm that rides in my car glovebox truth be told I am just looking for an excuse to expand the collection but I want have a least a slight reason for it.

I would probably reasonably shooting 10mm loads averaging above 600 ft pounds maybe 2-3% of the time, the rest standard target loads, as somebody said paper doesn't know the difference, but if I want to knock some holes in a old air tank with some full powered loads I just didn't want my gun to potentially shake itself apart.

I want something that actually kicks a bit more and or has a bit smaller magazine than my 9mm, reason being it is way too easy to shoot through a pair of 16 round magazines without even thinking, obviously thats my problem not the guns but cannons are fun.

On my list to get is an ar-15, ruger gp100, and a 1911 of some sort.

Orginally it was a .357 revolver vs a 1911 .45acp variant, but honestly the ballistic upgrade over my 9mm is not worth dropping the money. standard ball doesn't have much more energy behind it than a 9mm I can buy p+ or .45 super but I would be putting a lot of stress on the guns shooting it through one. standard loads are fine 90% of the time, but we have a lot of old junk cars and appliances the previous owners left in the woods to make having a few big guns on hand fun.


Basically I want a handgun with more power than 9mm +p would get me while still having fairly good penetration and being flat shooting.
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Old December 11, 2013, 09:11 PM   #14
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45+P or super,imo. Easy to build and maintain.
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Old December 13, 2013, 04:50 PM   #15
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You have perfectly described the 4" KGP-141 GP100; I own a pair myself.

Most highly recommend a quality hi-speed 125g JHP, like from Remington.
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Old December 13, 2013, 06:51 PM   #16
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ALOT of over the counter 40s&w loads are pushing close to 10mm spec. I have killed deer with my 10mm loaded to exactly what hot 40s&w loads are being loaded at. I own them all but carry the 40 more for that reason. 500ft/lbs is very common now in a 40s&w load like Critical Defense.
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Old December 13, 2013, 08:22 PM   #17
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Glock .40 caliber- pick your size. Get the .357 sig drop in barrel. Similar ballistics to .357 magnum, but in an automatic. I used the factory barrels to convert, but there are aftermarket options as well. NO other mods, just field strip and swap the barrel.

I got .357 barrels for my .40's due to bear problems but for smaller "game" HP's I'm sure are pretty devastating out of .357 sig.

You can swap back to .40 at the range. It's little less "snappy", but otherwise handles similar.

Compared to a wheel gun... well my 27 carries 10 and has quick reload. Fits in my back pocket.

Just another option.
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Old December 14, 2013, 02:16 AM   #18
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Well if recoil is an issue and your worried about gun longevity.

Why not take that RIA frame and get a .460 rowland upper for it? NO offense, but .45 acp can make for some very enjoyable range practice im told. and the .460 rowland 44 magnum type ammo, 180 grain jhp if memory serves, is alot easier then them hopped up 10mms im TOLD.
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Old December 14, 2013, 08:39 AM   #19
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I have had my 10mm for about 20 years. I don't like to shoot max loads or even hot ammo like Buffalo Bore and similar rounds. To me, that is like running proof rounds through your gun on an extended basis-probably okay short term but why push it. If I feel I need that level of power, I get something that shoots a bigger cartridge. My favorite loads are 10 grains of bluedot that fires a 180 XTP @ 1252 FPS which generates about 627 ft/lbs. My target load is a 207 cast bullet that I cast myself @ 971 FPS that makes about 433 ft/lbs. These loads bracket average .357 mag rounds. Federal 125 and 158 .357 mags for example make about 575 and 539 ft/lbs respectively.

I do put rubber shock buffers in my 10mm and when they show signs of splitting, I replace the recoil spring and the buffer. This is every couple of years on average. I am convinced this keeps the frame from battering. I do the same in my .45s as well. YMMV
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Old December 14, 2013, 08:50 PM   #20
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ALOT of over the counter 40s&w loads are pushing close to 10mm spec. I have killed deer with my 10mm loaded to exactly what hot 40s&w loads are being loaded at. I own them all but carry the 40 more for that reason. 500ft/lbs is very common now in a 40s&w load like Critical Defense.
Full-power 10mm is 700-800ft/lbs.
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Old December 15, 2013, 12:09 AM   #21
bamaranger
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glock

I'd think that a Glock 20, especially one with a heavier after market recoil spring, would hold up to all the shooting you would ever do.

The G20 slide is massive, and the poly frame has proven itself to be near indestructible.

There will soon be some who will voice that the 10mm and the .357 are neck and neck in power, but the G20 is a more carefree, low maint, easier to tote handgun.

Ammo can be a problem. Good excuse to get into reloading.
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Old December 15, 2013, 01:30 AM   #22
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I would probably reasonably shooting 10mm loads averaging above 600 ft pounds maybe 2-3% of the time, the rest standard target loads
2-3% is not a lot. From your description a 1911 10mm would last a lifetime. Im not really qualified to say but my guess is its not really the recoil that wears out a pistol or it would break long before it got sloppy. The 1911 can take a beating...
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Old December 16, 2013, 01:08 PM   #23
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Just get a S&W 1006 and be done with it. It was designed for the 10mm and can handle anything you put in it, it's a tank. I do reload for mine which helps with the ammo costs so I can shoot it a lot. I love it and can shoot it all day long. The 1911 just has a hard time holding together since it was made for lighter duty. The Glock......well it's a Glock......that's all I can say.
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Old December 17, 2013, 09:48 PM   #24
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Honestly, if you are talking 2-3% of your rounds are going to be full power 10mm loads, there is no way you can "blow up" any quality 10mm handgun sold today (or any of the older S&Ws, which would probably take 100% full power loads as long as your wallet can stand them).

The Glocks will hold up "most any" 10mm loads, but your brass will likely be junk after one firing...which eliminates reloading, thereby negating about 90% of the reason for shooting 10mm.

I'm pretty sure the RIA 1911 will have no problem with any commercially loaded 10mm ammo. If you shoot a lot of the top-shelf Georgia Arms, Underwood, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore stuff, you may induce some wear... but at a buck or two per round, how much can you afford to shoot?

And by the time you have shot 1000 rounds, you have spent 2-3x on ammo as you have on the gun. Change your springs, use a buffer if you must, keep an eye on parts of the slide and frame that absorb the impact...it's not rocket science.

Enjoy the freedom that come with owning a 10mm.
But...reload. Makes it so much easier to enjoy.

Last edited by orionengnr; December 17, 2013 at 09:54 PM.
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Old December 19, 2013, 07:10 AM   #25
Peter M. Eick
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I shoot generally full power loads in my 10mm's. My usual goal is something in the range of 200 grns at 1200 fps most of the time.

My high round count gun is my Baer 1911 format HWML with 7,032 rounds. My witness is at 4,068 and the G20 is at 4,032 rounds. Only the Baer had an issue and that was the rear sight pivot pin broke and was replaced.

I would not worry about it. I shoot full power with the best accuracy because that is what I wanted out of a 10mm. If I wanted weaker, I would have shot a 45acp.
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