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Old August 14, 2013, 02:59 PM   #1
FoghornLeghorn
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I remember a guy ..............

....... who patronized my favorite gun store. One day he'd wear a 1911 in a belt holster. The next day he'd wear a snubby in an ankle holster. The next day he'd have a Beretta (slide mounted saftey) in a shoulder holster. It seemed he had an endless variety of guns/rigs.

What do you think about that? He was just an average Joe. Not a cop or anything.

I often thought that if he suddenly found himself in a life or death high stress situation, that he might forget where his gun is, how the gun operates re safety, etc, just long enough to find himself in real trouble.

Opinion?
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Old August 14, 2013, 03:20 PM   #2
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Much ado about nothing. We recently had like a four page energetic thread where everyone had a very loud opinion on the tactical disadvantages of exactly that sort of thing.

In the end, I was left with exactly what I approached it with -- I just don't care so much what others choose to do as long as it doesn't disturb the peace, break laws and attract unwanted/negative attention.

Here's another angle: if the gent in question was the type who practiced a -lot- or even actually trained, with or without the assistance of professionals, then he could change handguns every hour on the hour and he would still be in a better place "tactically" than the lion's share of camoflage commandos who are all about the hardware with near zero thought for the software. Our world is -bursting- with those.

Another angle: what if that huge array of visible guns was what you always saw, and exactly what he intended for you to see? What if all of those were unloaded, 100% of the time and he kept one single working gun, concealed, and that was his primary? That would be pretty funny for the man who attempts to disarm him.

What is most likely? No idea. Perhaps he was just a show-off. But it's not my method and it doesn't really affect me, so it ends up being like SO MANY things I see and hear at a gun store or a gun show: forgettable.
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Old August 14, 2013, 03:20 PM   #3
Bob Wright
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I agree with you. I wear my Ruger the same way day after day after day after day. I practice my draw quite frequently, dry firing, usually twelve repititions each session. When any threat comes, the last thing I want to do is stand there and make decisions. The decision to draw/shoot or not is enough of a decision.

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Old August 14, 2013, 03:52 PM   #4
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I carry a Beretta PX4 Storm sometimes, a Ruger LCP most times, a Colt Detective Special on occasion. I'm not worried about it. Despite the differences, I practice enough with both to be instinctively familiar with both.

I'd say as a general rule it's probably a bad idea to carry a gun you're unfamiliar with, but the whole "different safety/trigger systems" kerfuffle is one of the many "problems" mostly manufactured by the internet discussion forums. There are a lot of those - I shot .40 S&W alongside 9 and .45 from the time I was 9 or 10 without ever knowing it was a "snappy" round. I carried .380 ACP and .38 standard pressure with no awareness at all that they were impotent and couldn't be relied upon
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Old August 14, 2013, 04:20 PM   #5
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You are spot on in your assumption.

Decorating your body with guns is quite different than carrying in a tactically efficient manner. Of course, I am of the mind set that for the vast majority of people, having a gun on your body (even an ankle holster) is better than it being locked in the safe at home. Most do not put themselves into situations like LE where bad things happen in the blink of an eye.

In stress situations you most certainly will forget which gun you have that day. As such you will not only forget where the FA is located, but what safety mechanism it has.
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Old August 14, 2013, 04:22 PM   #6
FoghornLeghorn
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^^^^^^^^Agree 100%.

I'm of the opinion that the gent in question could find himself in trouble if he got into a situation where seconds count.

Because of that, even though I carry one of several firearms, they all have one thing in common. There is no external safety and the first shot is DA.

My primary carry is a Sig P239 DAK SAS. Sometimes I carry a Glock 19. Occassionally I'll carry a S&W M66-1 or 66 no dash. Sometimes a Sig DA/SA P226. I recently bought a DA only Ruger SP101 to add to the rotation. You get the picture.

If I ever needed a sidearm, I just want to be able to draw and squeeze the trigger. No external safety. No chambering a round. Etc.

And I always carry in a belt holster on my left side (I shoot southpaw). Most of the holsters are Comp tac. But none of them have any kind of retention device other than friction.

But that's just me.
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Old August 14, 2013, 05:04 PM   #7
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While I own firearms with different manuals of arms, my social handguns all have the same basic operating system. ?.pull the trigger. DA revolver, Glock, Sig DAK, L C P. Don't want to complicate things with manual safeties or a DA/SA trigger. As for where I carry, that does vary, to a degree, depending on wardrobe.
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Old August 14, 2013, 05:45 PM   #8
johnwilliamson062
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Quote:
and he would still be in a better place "tactically" than the lion's share of camoflage commandos who are all about the hardware with near zero thought for the software.
The concern is a limitation in the software. My software doesn't handle all those changes very well.
I used to carry a GP100 open for political events and in the woods. A Glock "open" in an IWB holster.
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Old August 14, 2013, 06:06 PM   #9
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Not a concern for me. They all go bang when you pull the trigger. I carry a variety of pistols from time to time and I know and understand how each of them work. Knowing what you have and how to use it is what counts.

It isn't like it is all that difficult to know and understand how a variety of pistols operate. It sure isn't rocket science, but then again, I tend to be exceptional in most things.
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Old August 14, 2013, 06:47 PM   #10
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I carry a couple of different guns as well between pocket carry ( Ruger LCP ) and OWB (Walther PPS or a S&W 637).

The LCP is always in the same place, my left front pocket. The OWB carry is always on my left hand side at 8 o'clock in the same style Galco high rise holster.

In my opinion, so long as I'm familiar with the guns, and they essentially operate in the same manner (no safety), I'm comfortable with different guns and carry methods.
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Old August 14, 2013, 06:52 PM   #11
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I vary what I carry sometimes based on the weather and appropriate dress, I practice with all of them, I am always constantly aware of what and where I am carrying.
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Old August 14, 2013, 07:45 PM   #12
Glenn Dee
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I have a bunch of carry guns... Browning DBM, Kahr P9, Baretta 84, Smith model 10, Smith model 19, Smith model 36, Glock 23, Styer M40, Colt Det Spec. Colt OP. I carry them in a shoulder holster, IWB, pocket, OWB, fanny pack.

I spend quality time with each gun. I shoot, and dry fire regularly. Whats the big deal?
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Old August 14, 2013, 08:17 PM   #13
Bob Wright
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I wear western boots all of the time. Ankle holsters are out!

I did try one of those inside the waistband holsters once that had the rough textured material to keep it in place. It didn't. Gun and holster slid down into the top of my boot, and my jeans locked it there. Had to drop my pants to get the rig out.

Sure got a funny look from my wife!

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Old August 15, 2013, 08:18 AM   #14
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I drive five very different cars, from a Land Rover Defender LWB to a classic Mini Cooper, passing thru my wife's Jeep Liberty. If an emergency arrives, I will not try to handle the Land Rover as a Mini... each one is ingrained in my memory. The same applies to guns if you are familiar enough with them. YMMV.
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Old August 15, 2013, 11:17 AM   #15
SgtLumpy
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If an emergency arrives, I will not try to handle the Land Rover as a Mini... each one is ingrained in my memory. The same applies to guns if you are familiar enough with them.
This ^^^


Train with the darn thing and it becomes a quick non-issue. I suggest that if you really are worried that under stress you'll forget that your gun is in your shoulder holster instead of your hip holster, you need to train under stress more (assuming you train at all).

That "situational awareness" that everyone is so proud of having honed includes constantly knowing which weapons you have at your disposal and where they are.


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Old August 15, 2013, 01:16 PM   #16
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Well that's definitely weird..as you describe it. Those are all really different manual of arms. I'm a proponent to sticking to one gun that you train a lot with. I've carried a couple different guns myself. Usually going from Glock to SIG to Glock to 1911 to SIG to Glock and stuck at Glock. Hope you kept up.

But to carry a different gun all the time? I have to question where his mindset is.

Probably just showcasing. Loves guns. Maybe loves guns but doesn't train.

Like a car collector that doesn't drive all the cars, just has them. If that's his thing I won't judge him. That's not my thing though.
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Old August 15, 2013, 01:59 PM   #17
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Generally I agree with the OP. Safety requires standardization. You might be able to drive different vehicles in an emergency and know the difference between the Land Rover and the Mini but they both have the gas to the right side of the brake pedal. You know where to go to hit the right one. Imagine the chaos on the sidewalks of America if they were random across car models. You might do fine in normal conditions but in an emergency where you're reacting from memorized motor skills, the sidewalks could become a dangerous place to be.

But I like this:

Quote:
Another angle: what if that huge array of visible guns was what you always saw, and exactly what he intended for you to see? What if all of those were unloaded, 100% of the time and he kept one single working gun, concealed, and that was his primary? That would be pretty funny for the man who attempts to disarm him.
It made me smile at the thought. But then If I did it just to tempt someone to disarm me, that might just be looking for trouble. I'm not adverse to looking for a little trouble in life but when it comes to guns, trouble may not turn out how you plan. I prefer trouble where, when it goes wrong, I'm still alive.
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Old August 15, 2013, 02:18 PM   #18
ClydeFrog
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Bianchi's Law.....

Veteran and former sworn LE officer: John Bianchi wrote what he called "Bianchi's Law.

Bianchi started & ran the highly respected Bianchi Intl holster company.

Bianchi's Law says; carry the same gun the same way in the same place all the time.

I personally feel you can carry different weapons different ways depending on conditions but Bianchi offers sound advice.
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Old August 15, 2013, 02:48 PM   #19
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You might be able to drive different vehicles in an emergency and know the difference between the Land Rover and the Mini but they both have the gas to the right side of the brake pedal. You know where to go to hit the right one. Imagine the chaos on the sidewalks of America if they were random across car models. You might do fine in normal conditions but in an emergency where you're reacting from memorized motor skills, the sidewalks could become a dangerous place to be.
I understand what you mean, but my 2000 Mustang GT's clutch and shifter isn't remotely close to the 2008 VW's clutch and shifter I had before. When I jump into someone else's manual car, I need to learn a bit where the clutch let's off.

It's like a Glock trigger at 5.5lbs vs my SIG's 10lbs-DA / 4lbs-SA.

It's just better to be more familiar with one manual of arms or at the least really learn it well. That's not to say it's better to stick to only one kind of gun all the time in general. Such as recreational shooting activities. Just where it matter most, where it would most likely tarnish you up a bit under stress. Where muscle memory would take over for the most part when your mind goes into automatic flight, fight, or freeze mode.

Yeah, freeze mode is horrible. Happens to highly decorated veterans, it can happen to anyone. But that's a whole different conversation.



I'm just from the school of familiarity being more ideal with training.
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Old August 15, 2013, 05:01 PM   #20
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I carry one handgun, the same handgun, every day.

But at the same time I can pick up my other pistols and operate them fine without conscious thought. The grips, weight, sight picture, and so on kind of make me change gears without thinking about it. That comes with familiarity, though, not just writing a check for the handgun.
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Old August 15, 2013, 06:47 PM   #21
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But to carry a different gun all the time? I have to question where his mindset is.

Probably just showcasing. Loves guns. Maybe loves guns but doesn't train.
He may be "showcasing". There's not a thing in the world wrong with that. We've got threads full of "Show us your gun" posts right here. Assuming he doesn't train with them doesn't seem like a particularly obvious conclusion to me.


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Old August 15, 2013, 09:31 PM   #22
Constantine
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I remember a guy ..............

Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtLumpy View Post
He may be "showcasing". There's not a thing in the world wrong with that. We've got threads full of "Show us your gun" posts right here. Assuming he doesn't train with them doesn't seem like a particularly obvious conclusion to me.


Sgt Lumpy
This is an online forum where that's the preference among us, because we rarely see each other in person. So I don't see how the two translate as the same.

Assuming he does train with them doesn't seem like a particularly obvious conclusion to me either. I still doubt he does.
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Old August 16, 2013, 07:28 AM   #23
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I remember a guy ..............

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

....... who patronized my favorite gun store. One day he'd wear a 1911 in a belt holster. The next day he'd wear a snubby in an ankle holster. The next day he'd have a Beretta (slide mounted saftey) in a shoulder holster. It seemed he had an endless variety of guns/rigs.

What do you think about that? He was just an average Joe. Not a cop or anything.

I often thought that if he suddenly found himself in a life or death high stress situation, that he might forget where his gun is, how the gun operates re safety, etc, just long enough to find himself in real trouble.

Opinion?
Spot on!

There is a reason we get better with repetition. We get faster on the draw as we present over and over. This is because we develop a muscle memory and can begin the draw on a sub conscious level......automatically so to speak at the onset of the danger. This alone IMO would make multiple guns and carry positions a disadvantage tactically.

We also become much more consistent in that draw stroke by using the same holster and gun.

Anyone who has been in a potential DGU can tell us about the erosion of our dexterity. Not the time I want to pull my PX4 storm and apply my 1911 safety sweep.

So IMO the nano second delay in reaction time due to the need to figure out which carry location of the day is being used combined with the nano second delay in figuring out which manuel of arms needs to be used today just makes for a bad recipe during a rapid onset violent encounter.

Minor issues of course but issues that could mean the difference between life and death or serious injury.

I'd rather be boring and alive! I'd rather sacrifice the desire to carry all those pretty little gals being left almost forgotten laying in the safe to increase the ferocity of my defense. However as has been said above, what you do, how you carry, is your business.
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Old August 16, 2013, 04:30 PM   #24
colbad
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If you have any questions how muscle memory affects your draw and presentation, try doing it blind folded or with your eyes shut (of course using a safety spotter). At CQB distance your muscle memory should still put you on your target with our without your eyes open. Remember to use your same shooting stance. My experience is that CQB engagement is always off of muscle memory opposed to precision sight alignment.
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Old August 16, 2013, 04:32 PM   #25
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Cant comment on someone elses routine since I am not perfect yet

I do try to carry similiar guns on the 1911 model so they all act the same.
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