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Old December 7, 2013, 11:20 AM   #1
mp40
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What is a good laser ?

I AMLOOKING TO GET A LAZER TO PUT ON MY m&p 40 5 in. What is a good middle of the road not the best 600.00 but in the 200.00 or less range that is accurate and reliable?
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Old December 7, 2013, 11:43 AM   #2
Willie Lowman
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I recommend a laser.
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Old December 7, 2013, 11:47 AM   #3
MTT TL
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What kind of laser:

Grip or rail or other?

Red or green or other?

With/ without light?

Weight concerns?

Activation type?

etc etc etc
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Old December 7, 2013, 12:03 PM   #4
mp40
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a Rail Green dot with out a light. I think I can be more accurate out at 20yrd with a laser and want one for home protection any way. any suggestions on brand or particular model?
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Old December 7, 2013, 12:35 PM   #5
ClydeFrog
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Laser aimers....

The 2 big names in the US laser aiming system market are Lasermax & Crimsontrace.com .
These brands have been around for years.
CT, www.crimsontrace.com has a free 2013 consumer DVD that explains tactics & the different lasers.

A new laser system, Viridian has high tech green lasers but the handgun models are not cheap.
FWIW, green is far better than red but it costs more, uses more battery power faster & can get hot.

Some gun owners & armed professionals knock lasergrips & laser aiming systems but I think they have merit under limited conditions.

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Old December 7, 2013, 01:21 PM   #6
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To play with, to practice with to see how much you need to practice holding steady while you press the trigger, to impress your friends with your tacticool weapon.......any
To trust your life to in a srlf defense situation...none!
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Old December 7, 2013, 01:52 PM   #7
Willie Lowman
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I would go with the Viridian

http://www.viridiangreenlaser.com/

Not affiliated with them, I just like their laser sights.
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Old December 7, 2013, 02:23 PM   #8
chris in va
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Don't expect any laser to help you for target practice. The dot just dances all over the place. It does help in low light conditions for self defense when an iron sight picture is impossible.
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Old December 7, 2013, 03:11 PM   #9
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Crimson Trace for handguns, Burris for ARs. The CTC DVD has some good info too.

Don't neglect to practice conventionally sighted shooting. That said, people who bag on lasers are largely ignorant of their benefits and utility. I was in that camp until I got some given to me and tried them out. I was a reluctant proponent for a while, but I am slowly becoming an advocate for them. When you understand their benefits and see how they factor into real life shootings in which they are used, the facts can not be denied.
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Old December 7, 2013, 05:01 PM   #10
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I have Crimson Trace on 3 different revolvers, and I like them all. I think I can shoot better with a laser than with iron sights, although that is partly because I have reached the age where my eyes don't focus on the iron sights as well as they used to.
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Old December 7, 2013, 07:08 PM   #11
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robhof

Another vote for the Crimson Trace, I've put hundreds of rounds through my Beretta 92 with one and it still works fine. Stay away from the green lasers, they are more powerful and can be seen farther, but eat batteries. They're good for 1 or 2 range sessions at the most. The laser is helpful in a tactical mode, as you don't have to sight your weapon, just place the dot on the target and watch from a different point.
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Old December 7, 2013, 10:25 PM   #12
MTT TL
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Quote:
Don't expect any laser to help you for target practice. The dot just dances all over the place.
Sounds like it could be used to help quite a lot.
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Old December 7, 2013, 11:24 PM   #13
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I had decided against a laser for my SR45 and figured a small handheld flashlight would serve my purposes but I got to thinking and changed my mind. The primary purpose of my handgun is home defense. If I am woken up in the middle of the night buy an intruder bent on causing me or my family harm by the time I grab the gun stretch out my arm and take aim I would probably have already left the planet. Anyway, I purchased a Crimson Trace Rail Master red laser I am satisfied with it and it performs well.
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Old December 8, 2013, 10:51 AM   #14
fire4606
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I liked Viridians until I tried one, would not hold zero for much longer than 20-30 shots....

Bought brand new X5L... Also didnt work for me as I instinctively prefer to bring a gun up to sight in and view the front sight, basically covers the green dot, it just never felt right to me holding the gun differently and using only the laser to sight in on the target.
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Old December 8, 2013, 01:15 PM   #15
ClydeFrog
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CT issues....

I owned a CT lasergrip for my Taurus Protector .357magnum Ti series in 2004.
The red dot was adjusted to POA/POI but the - was the metal screws stuck out a bit.
This minor problem caused small cuts in my shooting hand(left hand) .
I covered it with a a bit of tape but that quickly wore off with sweat/moisture.

With the increased use of 1913 type systems on most semi-auto models, Id lean more towards a laser/white light that works on the frame not the pistol grip.
The extra weight helps control muzzle flip & recoil too.
My friend & I shot my M&P Compact .45acp with a Glock 65lum white light on the 1913 rail. It worked well for me.
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Old December 8, 2013, 10:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Quote: Don't expect any laser to help you for target practice. The dot just dances all over the place.

Sounds like it could be used to help quite a lot. __________________
That's exactly what It does help with. Learning a steady hold, and smooth trigger pull.
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Old December 9, 2013, 10:05 AM   #17
TxFlyFish
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Crimson trace grip laser with front activation + surefire x300 ultra

If you want combo the try any of the insight/eotech, streamlight, and surefire offerings
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Old December 9, 2013, 11:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote: Don't expect any laser to help you for target practice. The dot just dances all over the place.

Sounds like it could be used to help quite a lot. __________________

That's exactly what It does help with. Learning a steady hold, and smooth trigger pull.
I agree with MTT TL and Cheapshooter. The "dancing dot" only reflects what's actually happening with the sight picture. It may be a little unnerving for some shooters to realize that no hold will ever be perfectly static (Bullseye shooters have called this phenomena the "wobble area"), but it makes the laser a good learning tool.
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Old December 9, 2013, 02:39 PM   #19
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I'm not a fan of lasers at all. Iron sights. Night sights. Trijicon HD's.
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Old December 9, 2013, 04:18 PM   #20
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None?

I've used lasers, and have yet to find one I like. My irons don't have batteries that can die at inconvenient times, and the little tritium inserts give me a nice site picture, even in low light.

If you like them, more power to you. I personally believe in most cases, the disadvantages of a laser outweigh the advantages.
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Old December 9, 2013, 05:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
My irons don't have batteries that can die at inconvenient times,
I can only assume you realize that you still have your trusty irons (even the ones with "nite lite" inserts-assuming their shelf life hasn't expired) to use in the unlikely event that your Die Hard dies.
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Old December 9, 2013, 05:55 PM   #22
Gaerek
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This is true. But I also don't have to draw, expecting to see a pretty red dot, not seeing it, thinking "Oh Crap!!" then looking down the sights. This takes precious speed from my shooting. Is this a likely scenario? Not really, but it can happen, and I can only imagine it has happened.

The best reason for training with just iron sights though, is that I only have to train one sighting system. I don't have to overthink any situation (hmm, is it too bright for my laser? Should I use irons? Well, maybe I'll be able to see the laser. Oh crap, I can't see the laser, gotta use the iron sights!) and I know what to expect each and every time I draw.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. If you like lasers and they work for you, more power to you. It is my preference to not even bother with them. Simplicity in gear, simplicity in training. It doesn't get more simple than iron sights.
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Old December 9, 2013, 07:03 PM   #23
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But I also don't have to draw, expecting to see a pretty red dot, not seeing it, thinking "Oh Crap!!" then looking down the sights.
You might consider some training in point shooting. Just saying.
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Old December 9, 2013, 07:41 PM   #24
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I had one of those light/laser combos for a while - a SigLight - that seemed to hold it's 0 quite well. And I had a BG380 for a while that had a laser (i think insight?) that also seemed to be quite well built.
I have a friend who has a "laser max" guide rod in his 1911, and seems to like it, and he generally has pretty good opinions, so I'm willing to believe that it's a good set up.
So, as far as having good first/second hand experience with a laser's functionality and build quality, I can recommend those three.
However, I found I never really liked using them. I'm so used to looking for the front sight when I draw that I found I had to put conscious effort into focusing on the target to pick up the laser.
I guess it could be useful for point shooting in some situations, but - for me anyway - it's faster to find the front sight and actually aim than it is to try to find the dot. And since the only real advantage to point shooting is speed, it didn't even really work out all that well for me there.
I can see where it would be a fantastic training tool to get acclimated to point shooting - you can see if the gun's actually pointing where you want it to. And it could definitely make shooting from odd angles easier. But even still they're not for me.
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Old December 10, 2013, 12:50 AM   #25
Gaerek
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What is a good laser ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT TL View Post
You might consider some training in point shooting. Just saying.
You mean that technique of aiming without using sights that has existed long before lasers were attached to guns? Yeah, I can do that. Just saying.

My point was I don't want to spend training time with a sighting system that's more complex and less reliable than good ole iron sights. You will fight like you train. If you train, expecting to see a pretty red dot on your target, if you run into a situation where that dot isn't there, you now have to make conscious moves to point that gun where you want it. It takes time.

Great example of this in practice is police 50 or so years ago who would empty their brass into their hands before a reload simply because it saved them time on the range. Then when they would get into an actual fight, they would do what they had "trained" themselves to do on a reload...save their brass, rather than just dump it on the ground.

I wouldn't say that lasers are bad, they certainly have uses. I think they're strongest as a training tool (to show a shooter how their trigger pull affects their shot, and things like that). For people with bad eyes, they're a Godsend. Someone like me in their early 30's, with 20/20 vision, and limited training time? Sorry, a laser is a bad choice for me.
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