The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 2, 2013, 11:21 AM   #1
markr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 395
Remington Model 8/81

I keep reading that the Model 81 was an "Improved" Model 8.

Nowhere I read actually tells me what exactly was improved. Does anybody know what these improvements are?

Is one considered more valuable than the other? (8 VS. 81)

I'm interested in getting a shooter to hunt with.
__________________
I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time.

Washed up 11B1P
markr is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 11:34 AM   #2
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,251
"Improved" in this sense doesn't mean much.

Essentially, all of the changes were cosmetic -- changing the shape of the stock, primarily.

To the best of my knowledge, there were no mechanical alterations at all.

I purchased an 81 some years ago in .300 Savage.

I've still not shot it.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 01:59 PM   #3
McShooty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2012
Location: Northern Missouri
Posts: 310
I believe it is true the changes were mostly cosmetic. The Model 8 had a straight grip, the Model 81, a pistol grip. Also, the .300 Savage, which appeared around 1920 or 21 I think, was offered in the Model 81. It was not available in the Model 8. The Model 8 probably commands more money, since it was a John Browning design and the first successful semi-auto sporting rifle. He patented the design in 1900. Being a Browning design, it is built like a tank and I think most any one you find will function well. I have a Model 81 in .300 Savage and I have shot it many times. Being a long-recoil semi-auto, the whole barrel assembly recoils in order to open the bolt and cycle the action. The bolt lugs lock in an extension of the barrel rather than in receiver mortises. The receiver, which therefore does not have to withstand the pressure of the round, is of thin metal. This is a workable design which has since been used in more modern arms. I think the current Browning Sporting BAR, and maybe the LAR, use this locking method.

My gun functions well and is fairly accurate, but it certainly won't shame any bolt action rifles. It likes to toss the very hot empties straight up and back on my nose. The original butt plate is steel, and though you may not think of the .300 Savage as being a heavy recoil number, the Model 81 thumps you real good. If you intend to hunt, the Model 81 in .300 Savage would be far superior to a Model 8 in .30 Remington, which has ballistics comparable to the .30-30 Win.
McShooty is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 02:43 PM   #4
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10,602
As said, there is little if any mechanical difference. The 8 has a straight grip butt and a bit slimmer foreend. than the 81 which kind of bulked up. The 81 is available in .300 Savage.

I don't know ammo availability, but I would feel safest with a .35 Remington or .300 Savage to actually shoot. Ammunition for the original .25, .30, and .32 Remington are kind of scarce.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 03:01 PM   #5
markr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 395
Quote:
I don't know ammo availability, but I would feel safest with a .35 Remington or .300 Savage to actually shoot. Ammunition for the original .25, .30, and .32 Remington are kind of scarce.
My interest is in the .35 Remington. I believe that .35 and .300 svg are the only ones still commercially available.


I think the .35 will make for some interesting reloading projects with the large availability of .35 cal projectiles and 30/30 brass.
__________________
I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time.

Washed up 11B1P
markr is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 03:22 PM   #6
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10,602
.35 Remington is not a .30-30 derivative and .30-30 brass not usable.
It is a rimless case with its own nonstandard head diameter.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 04:23 PM   #7
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,251
" Also, the .300 Savage, which appeared around 1920 or 21 I think, was offered in the Model 81."

The .300 was first offered by Savage in 1920, but it wasn't chambered in the Model 81 until about 1938.

The .25, .30, and .32 Remington cartridges are effectively obsolete, but brass can be found or even manufactured.

Loading data is also commonly available, either for the actual cartridge, or by using .25-35, .30-30, or .32 Winchester Special data, respectively.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 04:58 PM   #8
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10,602
Strangely enough, Midway is listing .25 and .32 Remington - backorder from QCC - but not .30.

Yes, you can make them out of .30-30 by turning it rimless and die forming.

I'd still just look for a .35 or .300.

A friend bought a .303 Savage rifle largely because it came with a good stock of ammo and brass he could use with his first .303.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 07:50 PM   #9
CowTowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2007
Location: Cowtown of course!
Posts: 1,103
Graf's usually has the ammo. They are currently out. I would contact them about backorder status.
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...roductId/11930
__________________
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearm Safety and Pistol Instructor
"There are three classes of people: those who see, those who see when they are shown, those who do not see."
Leonardo da Vinci
CowTowner is offline  
Old December 3, 2013, 08:47 AM   #10
markr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 395
Quote:
.35 Remington is not a .30-30 derivative and .30-30 brass not usable.
It is a rimless case with its own nonstandard head diameter.
Yeah, I see the error of my ways now. I was thinking .35 rem was a necked up 30/30. But my statement was half correct. Lots of .357 caliber projectiles on the market.

Quote:
Yes, you can make them out of .30-30 by turning it rimless and die forming.
After you eliminate the rim, how do you account for the difference in diameter of the case? .422 Vs. .458 ?
__________________
I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time.

Washed up 11B1P
markr is offline  
Old December 3, 2013, 11:48 AM   #11
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,251
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough in my reply.

The .25, .30, and .32 Remingtons are rimless analogs to the .25-35, .30-30, and .32 Winchester Special cartridges.

Dimensions are slightly different, but you can make rimless cases by cutting the rim off of any of the rimmed Winchester cases, cutting a new extractor groove, and resizing and fireforming.

The .35 Remington case design, as noted, is a developmental one-off, not based on a previous cartridge, and not really used for much of anything after.

It is kind of odd that Winchester never did develop a .35 caliber variant cartridge for the Model 1894.

They did offer the .35 Winchester Center Fire starting in 1903, but it was a much larger cartridge chambered in the Model 1895 rifle.

Oddly enough, a .35 caliber wildcat version based on the .30-30, first appearing around the same time as the .35 Winchester, was a fairly popular option for salvaging shot out Model 1894s.

I don't think it's any accident that Remington's single viable survivor of the Winchester-Remington cartridge wars is the one that didn't have a Winchester counterpart in the smaller, handier 1894 action.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old December 3, 2013, 12:55 PM   #12
Colt46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: Campbell Ca
Posts: 583
I've go the 81 in .300 savage

Keep it as a back up or loaner deer rifle. Has an old lyman alaskan scope mounted on the side of receiver. Shoots pretty well for an ugly gun
Colt46 is offline  
Old December 3, 2013, 01:42 PM   #13
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,251
Surprisingly heavy, too.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old December 3, 2013, 05:12 PM   #14
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 18,652
The .35 Remington has been a mainstay caliber in Marlin lever rifles since the end of WWII. It has one drawback and that is that the shoulder is too small for good case support and if everything is not just right, it is prone to misfires.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old December 3, 2013, 06:21 PM   #15
markr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 395
Do any of you guys have experience using, or casting your own cast boolits for .35 Remington ? At the pressures and velocities it shoots at it seems a good candidate. I would imagine gas checks would be neccessary.

On a another note, I've found a Model 8 in .35 that I am considering.
__________________
I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time.

Washed up 11B1P
markr is offline  
Old December 8, 2013, 07:40 PM   #16
markr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 395
I'm the proud new owner of a .35 Rem Model 81 In beatiful shape!
__________________
I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time.

Washed up 11B1P
markr is offline  
Old December 8, 2013, 09:33 PM   #17
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,088
+1

Good for you.

I've always thought the 8/81's were interesting rifles, but have never owned one. REad a story somewhere where LE and the Tx Rangers were very big on them when they first came out. Ranger came to a unit meeting with one bought new, and the meeting adjourned and the whole outfit went and bought one. Wish I could remember where I read that.

The .30 and .35 Rem ctgs were popular deer rounds in the autos little brother the 14/141 pumps with many of my kin.
bamaranger is offline  
Old December 8, 2013, 10:15 PM   #18
Tad_T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2012
Location: Idaho
Posts: 129
I have a Remington Model 81 in .30 Remington. It was made in February 1947 and originally belonged to my grandfather.

I killed the first deer I ever shot with a rifle with it when I was 14 in 1977. Before that I had used a shotgun. I have killed several more deer with it since then.

Ammo was difficult to find for it even back then. Every time I found a box I would buy it. When I was 16 I got an RCBS Rockchucker kit for Christmas. I got some .30 Remington dies so that I could reload for it.

I went into Howard Bros. in Monroe, LA in 1985 and they had some Wichester Super X .30 Reminton in the yellow box. It was priced at $4.11 a box. The guy asked me did I want a box. I asked him how many boxes they had. He said that he had ten. I told him that I would take them all. Two hundred rounds out the door for $43.16. I still have two boxes of it.

I found two hundred new .30 Remington brass cases on clearance last year at a local shop that had never had any before. I guess I am set for brass now.

My Model 81 is still a good shooting rifle and in the right terrain, I don't hesitate to hunt with it even today.
Tad_T is offline  
Old December 9, 2013, 02:31 PM   #19
markr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 395
I believe .35 Rem and .300 Savage are the only two calibers still commercially available, of all the calibers the 8/81 was chambered for.

With that said, I will be getting some .35 Rem dies.
__________________
I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time.

Washed up 11B1P
markr is offline  
Old December 9, 2013, 04:06 PM   #20
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,251
"I believe .35 Rem and .300 Savage are the only two calibers still commercially available"

From the big name makers, that is correct. .30 Remington is still loaded by Precision Cartridge.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old December 9, 2013, 08:53 PM   #21
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 18,652
I should refrain from mentioning this, but I have no shame. At least two Remington Model 8's were used when a certain much publicized crime couple encountered a little problem on May 23, 1934. Frank Hamer had one in .30 Remington with an extended 15 round detachable magazine from Peace Officers Equipment Co. Another officer reportedly had one, caliber unknown by me, and another had a BAR.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old December 10, 2013, 07:56 AM   #22
CowTowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2007
Location: Cowtown of course!
Posts: 1,103
No matter the relevance, I have to throw this one into the pot as it were.
The 6.8 Remington SPC has the .30 Remington as its parent cartridge.
Quote:
The program started the design by using a .30 Remington case, which was modified in length to fit into magazines that would be accommodated by the magazine wells of the M16 family of rifles and carbines that are currently in service with the U.S. Armed Forces
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC

So, in a small way, it still lives. Well, sort of.
__________________
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearm Safety and Pistol Instructor
"There are three classes of people: those who see, those who see when they are shown, those who do not see."
Leonardo da Vinci
CowTowner is offline  
Old December 10, 2013, 02:26 PM   #23
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 18,652
It is interesting to note the cheers and praise for the 6.8 from the same folks who condemned the 6.5 Carcano (just about the same, with a heavier bullet) as worthless, low power, and not even worth discussing in polite society.

So we may be going back to 1890's cartridge power. That may say less about the 6.8 than about the 5.56 it is intended to replace.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old December 11, 2013, 04:04 PM   #24
markr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 395
Anybody know if my Model 81 will digest .35 Remington Hornaday Leverevolution ammo with the polymer tip? Is there any reason it won't feed or cycle?

On another note, were the heck is all the .35 Remington ammo ???
__________________
I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time.

Washed up 11B1P
markr is offline  
Old December 11, 2013, 07:46 PM   #25
CowTowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2007
Location: Cowtown of course!
Posts: 1,103
My BIL's Model 81 in 30 Remington feeds it just fine. Those are the bullets Precision Cartridge uses.
__________________
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearm Safety and Pistol Instructor
"There are three classes of people: those who see, those who see when they are shown, those who do not see."
Leonardo da Vinci
CowTowner is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12165 seconds with 7 queries