The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 30, 2013, 05:38 PM   #1
lake393
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2013
Posts: 6
What is "Range Target Practice" ammo? (Federal makes it)

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone knew about this ammo. Is it lower quality than their regular ammo?

Also, I'm trying to figure out if it's priced well... is it supposed to be cheaper than regular ammo or the same?

I have put a picture of the box below. Hopefully you can see it. Thank you.

lake393 is offline  
Old November 30, 2013, 08:44 PM   #2
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 5,960
I have always regarded Federal American Eagle as the equivalent of Winchester USA and Remington UMC -- basic, range/plinking ammo.

Winchester USA at Wal-Mart this afternoon was priced at $42.95 for 100 rounds in .45 Auto. I didn't think to look at prices for 9mm or .40 S&W -- I spied 5 boxes of .22 RL and just about tripped over my own feet heading out to find the guy with the keys.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 1, 2013, 10:30 AM   #3
old bear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2009
Location: Not close enough to the beach
Posts: 1,130
Lake393, I have no experience with the style of Federal ammo you are asking about, other than on the whole Federal makes good ammo. As my only range goal is to preserve or increase my self-defense abilities I only shoot duty ammo. Sure it cost a little more but I believe it is money well spent.

Perhaps you could buy a box or two and share your thoughts with the rest of us
old bear is offline  
Old December 1, 2013, 10:31 AM   #4
DaleA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,339
The box you pictured is .40 S&W cartridges that have 180 grain bullets that have a full metal jacket (FMJ). As the box says you can use them on the range, for target practice or just plinking. You can also use them for self defense. The military uses FMJ bullets almost exclusively. The rounds you pictured certainly wouldn't do a bad guy any good if you hit them with one.

Now that said, there is ammunition that is DESIGNED for self defense that usually has hollow point bullets or some kind of expanding bullets that is GENERALLY considered BETTER for self defense than FMJ bullets. Because the bullets probably had more developmental work done on them and might be harder to manufacture they are generally more expensive than FMJ bullets and therefore you pay more for a box of those cartridges than the ammunition you pictured.

The premium self defense rounds might also be loaded to get more velocity on the bullets too. This means pushing, but not exceeding, the pressure limits for the cartridge and when you do this you better have tighter quality control to make sure you DON'T exceed the pressure limits and with tighter quality control come a higher price.

There's a lot of generalities in the above statements and if anyone has different view points or more in depth insights I'd certainly concede the above info doesn't apply to every case.
DaleA is offline  
Old December 1, 2013, 06:30 PM   #5
tipoc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2004
Location: Redwood City, Ca.
Posts: 2,205
Quote:
Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone knew about this ammo. Is it lower quality than their regular ammo?
It's about the same quality as ball ammo sold by other manufacturers. Buy a few boxes and decide for yourself.

Quote:

Also, I'm trying to figure out if it's priced well... is it supposed to be cheaper than regular ammo or the same?
It is regular ammo so it is priced competitively with it's kin from other manufacturers.

It's ball ammo, aka full metal jacket, FMJ ammo. Get a few boxes and see how it does through your guns.

tipoc
tipoc is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 01:48 AM   #6
lake393
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2013
Posts: 6
OK thanks for the insights. Yes, this stuff would just be for plinking at the range, and it caught my eye because it was a few cents cheaper (per round) than most other ammo.

I have used Federal ammo before and it was perfectly fine ammo, but this one is in a white box that says "Range Target Practice" so I don't know what the difference is.

I probably won't be able to write back and let you guys know how it performs because it's it's not for me; it's for my sister, who goes to the range quite a bit and this is what she asked for for Christmas.
lake393 is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 05:54 AM   #7
dayman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Location: The Woods
Posts: 969
It probably doesn't have as much powder, and is a basic FMJ bullet.
QC probably isn;t quite as tight as it would be with SD or match offerings.
I'll echo everyone else and say it's probably the same idea as WWB or UMC.
Personally, I just buy whatever's the best deal/round.


Quote:
Winchester USA at Wal-Mart this afternoon was priced at $42.95 for 100 rounds in .45 Auto. I didn't think to look at prices for 9mm or .40 S&W -- I spied 5 boxes of .22 RL and just about tripped over my own feet heading out to find the guy with the keys.
Personally, I never run to find the guy. I just stand there trying to look intimidating, and maintain my place in line. Someone else usually goes to find the guy.
It would be nice if they had someone in Sporting goods all the time, but I guess if their business model didn't call for them to be perpetually understaffed, they wouldn't be able to offer those low low prices.
__________________
si vis pacem para bellum

Last edited by dayman; December 2, 2013 at 06:21 AM.
dayman is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 07:25 PM   #8
phillip69
Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2013
Posts: 15
Winchester USA at Wal-Mart this afternoon was priced at $42.95 for 100 rounds in .45 Auto. I didn't think to look at prices for 9mm or .40 S&W -- I spied 5 boxes of .22 RL and just about tripped over my own feet heading out to find the guy with the keys.

r u serious? u r excited over 43 cents/round for .45? that's hi! i wont pay that!

if u meant the .22LR's, u didn't give their price...

i think it is a shame walmart has decided to jump on the overpriced ammo wagon! we should all refuse to buy at their hi prices.
phillip69 is offline  
Old December 2, 2013, 08:41 PM   #9
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 5,960
I was excited because I actually found, and was able to buy, three whole boxes (of 50 rounds each) of .22LR. That said, it was also the first time in probably a year that I've seen a box of WWB in .45 Auto on the shelf at Wal-Mart. The price certainly isn't great -- IIRC, it was around $35/100 before this latest shortage started, but even seeing a box on the shelf was pretty amazing.

The .22 was Federal American Eagle, 36-grain high velocity. Price was $2.95/50.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 3, 2013, 05:23 AM   #10
dayman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Location: The Woods
Posts: 969
Maybe I'm just lucky, but my local wal mart has been pretty reliably stocked the past few months. I've managed to get a couple thousand rounds of 9mm, and close to a thousand of .38spl/,357 3 boxes at a time - I'm not hording per-say, just trying to get my reserve back up to it's pre-shortage levels. At this point I'm just buying what I want to shoot.
The only thing they don't seem to ever have is .22.

Quote:
i think it is a shame walmart has decided to jump on the overpriced ammo wagon! we should all refuse to buy at their hi prices
There prices haven't really gone up all that much, and if you follow the prices of the component metals, a certain amount of increase is to be expected.
2.5 Billion Chinese/Indians are starting to decide they want electricity, and other luxuries of modern life, so the demand for metals - copper in particular - is just going to continue to increase.
The supply is relatively fixed, so with an increase in demand comes in increase in cost.
__________________
si vis pacem para bellum
dayman is offline  
Old December 4, 2013, 12:25 PM   #11
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,066
I see a lot of that Federal ammo sold at my local indoor ranges...and its just fine for range practice.

It is a little cheaper ....but like someone else said - its "regular" ammo...but its not "Defense" ammo ....but no reason to shoot "Defense" ammo in my view. With Defense or Carry ammo - I run just enough of it thru my guns to make sure it runs 100% ....but all I shoot at the range is my own reloads in FMJ.
BigJimP is offline  
Old December 5, 2013, 02:41 AM   #12
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 11,344
Federal Range Practice ammo is loaded with a totally enclosed lead core bullet, so that there is no lead vaporized during the firing process. It is marketed for use in indoor ranges, which have to monitor indoor air quality and lead exposure to their employees. As far as quality of the ammo, it is good ammo.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old December 5, 2013, 09:58 AM   #13
baddarryl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2011
Location: Cape Fear!
Posts: 938
Quote:
Federal Range Practice ammo is loaded with a totally enclosed lead core bullet, so that there is no lead vaporized during the firing process. It is marketed for use in indoor ranges, which have to monitor indoor air quality and lead exposure to their employees. As far as quality of the ammo, it is good ammo.
Good info!
baddarryl is offline  
Old December 5, 2013, 04:11 PM   #14
Gaerek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 939
Quote:
You can also use them for self defense. The military uses FMJ bullets almost exclusively. The rounds you pictured certainly wouldn't do a bad guy any good if you hit them with one.
I can't in good conscience let this go without comment. It's is generally considered a very bad idea to use FMJ ammo for self defense purposes. This is an argument that has been going on since Jesus was an Ensign (as my Dad would say) and although there are some compelling arguments for FMJ's over JHP's, most don't pass the BS test.

The "Military uses it, so it's good!" argument is one of the smelliest arguments for the use of FMJ. First of all, it's politicians who decided that our military would limit themselves to FMJ, not actual military people. For some reason, our government decided we'd follow the Hague convention (the Geneva Convention is not the treaty that limits the use of expanding ammo) even though we never signed it. In addition, many Military Police units (I won't say all, since I only have experience with the ones I've spoken to) load their sidearms with JHP. I wonder why?

But probably the biggest reason the military uses FMJ is because their mission favors the penetration. They need to be able to shoot through things. Penetrating a bad guy and hitting the bad guy behind him is a good thing. In a warzone, there's less chance of collateral, innocent casualties, from small arms fire. For the military, there is little drawback to using FMJ.

In our little world? Where we're not in a warzone? Where there could be an innocent person in a car behind the bad guy you need to stop that you can't see? Well, let me put it this way. Penetration is good. Without a certain amount of penetration you defeat the purpose of a firearm. But over penetration is bad. FMJ's, especially in the higher velocity rounds (9mm, .40, etc) have this nasty tendency to go through and through their intended target. And in most cases, with enough force to injure/kill/maim an additional person if they're in the wrong place.

Now, the two inevitable arguments:

1) Even with modern JHP, they don't always expand, and in certain cases can act like a FMJ.

and

2) You're more likely to miss your target than hit anyway, so even if you're using JHPs, you'll have a chance at hitting someone who isn't a bad guy.

Let me re-phrase these arguments (since, they really are essentially the same argument) so you can see how ridiculous they are.

Since JHP's aren't perfect, and can be overshot, and in some cases can over-penetrate, you should make sure to send even more lead past your intended target by loading FMJ's.

I know you were mostly arguing that JHP's are the better bet, I just think it's irresponsible to suggest them. And the military argument is very weak, since they have a different mission and different regulations to us. If he police carried FMJ, you'd have an argument there, since their "mission" is more closely related to ours and in a nearly identical environment. But of course, every LE agency in the country loads JHPs. That alone should say volumes.
Gaerek is offline  
Old December 6, 2013, 10:11 AM   #15
dajowi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Posts: 965
"Range Practice Ammo." This is their way of saying to the uninitiated, "Hey, this isn't any good for self defense purposes. You need to purchase our PREMIUM SELF DEFENSE AMMO priced at $50.00 per box of 20 (in the bright orange boxes on the shelf right next to our Range Practice Ammo).

The only thing that's missing on the box of PREMIUM SELF DEFENSE AMMO is advertising which reads: "Maybe it costs a little more, but isn't your family's life worth it?"

Last edited by dajowi; December 6, 2013 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Added text
dajowi is offline  
Old December 6, 2013, 10:52 AM   #16
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
"Range Practice Ammo." This is their way of saying to the uninitiated, "Hey, this isn't any good for self defense purposes. You need to purchase our PREMIUM SELF DEFENSE AMMO priced at $50.00 per box of 20 (in the bright orange boxes on the shelf right next to our Range Practice Ammo).

The only thing that's missing on the box of PREMIUM SELF DEFENSE AMMO is advertising which reads: "Maybe it costs a little more, but isn't your family's life worth it?"
The bolded part is True. It is not good ammunition for self defense purposes. It would certainly be my last choice.

Take a look at the velocities of various ammunition and the terminal performance of various bullet types and you will quickly see the difference. A slow moving FMJ bullet may stop a threat but it will be much less likely to do so given the performance of the bullet.

When defending myself I'd rather have a cheap gun and good ammo than a really nice gun and cheap ammo.
__________________
Proxima est Mors, Malum Nullum adhibit Misericordiam
MTT TL is offline  
Old December 6, 2013, 11:28 AM   #17
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10,621
It is what I lump under the term "econoball," inexpensive ammo for the non-handloader. I cannot find anyplace that has both RTP and American Eagle to compare prices and get a handle on its quality or value. These days you pretty well have to take what you can find.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old December 6, 2013, 01:48 PM   #18
BigJimP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 11,066
"Range - or Practice Ammo" .....and "Defense Ammo" ....are 2 very different things.

There is nothing wrong with using FMJ for range practice in my opinion ....but no one on here is suggesting the OP use it for "carry ammo"....that I can see..
BigJimP is offline  
Old December 6, 2013, 09:34 PM   #19
skizzums
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2013
Location: Douglasville, Ga
Posts: 1,028
federal makes a very good range ammo, obviously not the same as defensive ammo as it being a fmj, but i belive federal makes the best affordable ammo on the market and winchester white box being the worst due to very inconsistent powder charges. i rarely purchase loaded ammo anyore, but if i do, its always federal champion

just my two cents, im positive others have different opinions
__________________
My head is bloody, but unbowed
skizzums is offline  
Old December 6, 2013, 10:19 PM   #20
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 5,960
Never heard of Federal Champion. Never heard of this stuff. If Champion is ball ammo (FMJ), then that makes three different lines/"brands" of FMJ ammo from Federal; American Eagle, Champion, and RTP.

What's the difference among them? What are the prices relative to one another? And ... WHY?
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 9, 2013, 08:04 AM   #21
lapetrarca53
Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2012
Posts: 92
Picked up two boxes of it this weekend with my new Taurus PT709 Slim. Ran like a champ.

It was a few dollars less than I would normally pay for CCI Blazer, S&B, etc.....but, as I said, no issues.
lapetrarca53 is offline  
Old December 18, 2013, 03:13 AM   #22
745SW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Location: California
Posts: 262
Federal Champion is a light target load. American Eagle is a warmer load, I think the load is the same/similar to the hollow point stuff. RTP is unfamiliar to me.
745SW is offline  
Old December 24, 2013, 11:41 PM   #23
shep854
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2004
Location: Birmingham AL
Posts: 552
"In addition, many Military Police units (I won't say all, since I only have experience with the ones I've spoken to) load their sidearms with JHP. I wonder why?"--Gaerek
Because MPs are more likely to encounter criminals (civilians). The Hague Conventions deal with ammo used against enemy combatants. (Yeah, )
IIRC, it was a political move against the Brits in the 19th Century, since they used bullets that tended to expand in some of their colonial wars.
----
A bit of off-topic reading on the Hague Convention and expanding bullets:
http://www.thegunzone.com/hague.html
__________________
Powder smoke- The Smell of FREEDOM!
I don't shoot to kill; I shoot to live.
Registration? NEVER!!
shep854 is offline  
Old December 25, 2013, 05:23 PM   #24
tipoc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2004
Location: Redwood City, Ca.
Posts: 2,205
Just a side note to the Hague Convention discussion regarding ammo. The agreements signed at the conventions of 1899 and 1907 were in character similar to many such agreements signed by the imperialist powers both before and since: They were obsolete and meaningless when signed.

See by 1899 the transition to smokeless powder was well underway and exposed lead bullets in military rifle rounds were obsolete. In 1892 when the U.S. went to the Krag-Jorgensen rifle it adopted as well the 30-40 Krag round (30 Army) which was a fmj round.

By the time the accords were signed jacketed rounds spitzer bullets and boat tail design led the way. By the mid 1890s Mauser's design was setting a world standard as was the new type ammo they used. In 1903 the U.S. adopted it's version of the Mauser design, the Springfield rifle, and a few years later the 30-06 round. None of these rounds violated the agreements all were state of the art. The agreements only banned out of date ammo in military usage.

tipoc

Last edited by tipoc; December 25, 2013 at 11:12 PM.
tipoc is offline  
Old December 25, 2013, 09:09 PM   #25
sandbag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2008
Posts: 612
"Range"Ammo

Some "range"ammo like Cowboy Action rounds are designed for specific sports and probably aren't optimal for self defense.Other ammo for the range like 10mm Blazer or 45ACP 230 gr FMJ will do some real damage and you can carry it.9mm FMJ is one I would only use on the range.Of course more specifics on the defensive use circumstances might determine the choice.
sandbag is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13655 seconds with 7 queries